Jan

14

Winners to Losers Review – Test of Winnerstolosers

Filed Under Neutral systems | 245 Comments

I have recently been told of a new laying system called Winners To Losers that promises massive rewards at a brilliant strike rate: Is Winners to Losers too good to be true? Let’s find out more in this Winners To Losers Review!

What is Winnerstolosers?
Winners to losers is another betting system brought to you by a company called Racing and Leisure Ltd and they are claiming that their new system WINNERS TO LOSERS could have earned you £174,000 from January 2005 to the end of 2008. This was achieved with a strike rate of 89.16%. Last year (2008), the strike rate was up to 90.12%

During the Winners to losers test, I intend to use level stakes of £20 per lay from a £1000 bank.

I’d also like to make it clear that I have no connection to the owners, publishers or administration of the system, not am I receiving any form of reward for conducting the test.

Read more about Winnertolosers on their website

This test will be performed by Chris.

Results of Live test

DAY 1: FRIDAY 9TH JAN 2009

2.30 LINGFIELD: ROYAL CHOIR: 9th at 12/1: profit of £19

1/1: Bank = £1019: P/L = +£19

DAY 2:  SATURDAY 10TH JAN

2.45 KEMPTON: MUJAMEAD:  9th at 10/1: profit of £19

2/2: Bank = £1038: P/L = +£38

DAY 3: SUNDAY 11TH JAN

NO BETS

DAY 4: MONDAY 12TH JAN

NO BETS

DAY 5: TUESDAY 13TH JAN

3.40 GREAT LEIGHS: MILLFIELD: 6th at 10/1: profit of £19

3/3: Bank = £1057: P/L = +£57

DAY 6: WEDNESDAY 14TH JAN

3.55 LINGFIELD: LOYAL ROYAL: 4th at 5/1: profit of £19

7.50 KEMPTON: NORCROFT (5th at 8/1) & NAMU (6th at 14/1): profit of £38

8.50 KEMPTON: BALATA: 3rd at 4/1: profit of £19

4/4 for a profit on the day of £76.

Now 7/7: Bank is now £1133: P/L = +£133

DAY 7: THURSDAY 15TH JAN

2.30 SOUTHWELL: QUICK OFF THE MARK: 2ND at 7/1: profit of £19

8/8: Bank is now £1152: P/L = +£152

So, we reach the end of the first week of our trial. 8 successful lays out of 8 so far, generating an excellent 7.6 points profit after 5% betfair commission.

DAY 8: FRIDAY 16TH JAN

3.30 LINGFIELD: UPSTAIRS: 5th at 3/1(BSP 4.91):  +£19

4.05 LINGFIELD: CHALICE WELCOME: WON at 8/1 (BSP 9.39): loss of £167.80

6.50 FORMIDABLE GUEST: 2nd at 17/2 (BSP 12.5): +£19

2/3 Today: loss of £129.80

Now 10/11: Bank = £1022.20: P/L = +£22.20

DAY 9: SATURDAY 17TH JAN

No Bets (One NH selection: a successful lay: SP was 7/2 ; 4.69)

DAY 10: SUNDAY 18TH JAN

5.20 KEMPTON: SAFIN was 2nd at 10/1 (BSP 13.87): +£19

11/12: Bank = £1041.20: P/L = +£41.20

***The owners of Winners To Losers are going to release a National Hunt version of the system, which I am going to trial alongside this flat racing version: using a separate notional bank.*** (One NH selection today: a successful lay: SP was 9/2: 6.64)

DAY 11: MONDAY 19TH JAN

No Bets

DAY 12: TUESDAY 20TH JAN

2.00 SOUTHWELL: MAMBO SUN was 4th at 9/2 (BSP 6.11): +£19

3.00 SOUTHWELL: IL GRANDE ARDONE was 8th at 11/2 (BSP 6.99): +£19

2/2 Today, currently 13/14. Bank is now £1079.20: a profit of £79.20

(One NH bet today: a winning bet [SP was 5/1: 6.62] NH now stands at 3/3: +£57)

DAY 13 : WEDNESDAY 21ST JAN

9.20 KEMPTON: HOLLOW JO was 9th at 17/2 (BSP 14.09): +£19

14/15: Bank = £1098.20 (+£98.20)

DAY 14: THURSDAY 22ND JAN

5.30 WOLVERHAMPTON: PAB SPECIAL was 2nd at 4/1 (BSP 5.76): +£19

6.50 KEMPTON: WHAT KATIE DID was 3rd at 11/1 (BSP 18.14): +£19

9.20 KEMPTON: RUWAIN was 7th at 13/2 (BSP 8.26): +£19

Another 3/3 today (making 17/18) for another £57 profit: Bank is now £1155.20: a profit of £155.20

***The second week of the trial shows 9 successes out of 10 lays. A small profit on the week of 0.16pts: currently 7.76pts up in 2 weeks.***

DAY 15: FRIDAY 23RD JAN

2.15 LINGFIELD: WHISKEY CREEK won at 11/4 (BSP 4.41): loss of £68.10

Now 17/19. Bank = £1087.00: profit of £87.00

DAY 16: SATURDAY 24TH JAN

2.00 LINGFIELD: BILLY RED was 6th at 11/2 (BSP 8.60): £19 profit

Now 18/20: Bank is £1106: profit of £106

(4 NH selections today [9/2: 6.67, 11/2: 7.60, 6/1: 8.20 & 14/1: 20.94] all got beat to put NH selections at 7/7: +£133 profit)

DAY 17: SUNDAY 25TH JAN

No bets today. (There were 2 successful selections on the NH trial though. 7/1: 9.51 and 8/1: 12.02): 9/9 +£171

DAY 18: MONDAY 26TH JAN

3.05 WOLVERHAMPTON: SMIRFY’S SYSTEMS was 2nd at 15/2 (BSP 8.84): +£19

Now 19/21: Bank = £1125: Profit of £125

(Also, one NH qualifier today, which was beaten at 9/1: 12.41  NH now 10/10 for +£190)

DAY 19: TUESDAY 27TH JAN

No bets. (No NH either)

DAY 20: WEDNESDAY 28TH JAN

No bets. (No NH either)

DAY 21: THURSDAY 29TH JAN

3.20 SOUTHWELL: EL DIEGO was 2nd at 4/1 (BSP 3.98): +£19

3.50 SOUTHWELL: CALMDOWNMATE was 2nd at 11/4 (BSP 3.81): +£19

4.20 SOUTHWELL: HEAD TO HEAD was 5th at 4/1 (BSP 6.4)

An excellent day: 3 relatively short priced successes within an hour! Another £57 profit made.

Now 22/24: Bank is now £1182: a profit of £182.

(Also 1 successful NH selection at 5/1: 6.03 today. NH is now 11/11 for +£209!)

***The third week of the trial shows 5 successes out of 6 lays. A small profit on the week of 1.34pts: currently 9.1pts up in 3 weeks. (NH selections are 10.45pts up too!)***

DAY 22: FRIDAY 30TH JAN

LINGFIELD 12.40: SUNSET BOULEVARD 9th at 9/2 (BSP 5.61) £19 profit

23/25: Bank = £1201: profit = £201

(3 Successful NH selections in the same race today: 9/1: 13.79, 11/1: 15.40& 16/1: 25.00. NH now 14/14 for +£266)

DAY 23: SATURDAY 31ST JAN

LINGFIELD 4.25: MILLIES ROCK was 2nd at 7/2 (co fav) (BSP 5.27): £19 profit

24/26: Bank = £1220: profit = £220

(4/5 successful NH selections today: laid a winner at 4.08, successes at 3.91, 5.82, 6.60 & 9.20. Still made £15.40 on the day. NH now 18/19 for +£281.40)

DAY 24: SUNDAY 1ST FEB

No bets.

(One successful NH selection at 6/1: 8.55. Now 19/20 for +£300.40)

DAY 25: MONDAY 2ND FEB

No bets. (No racing!)

DAY 26: TUESDAY 3RD FEB

3.40 SOUTHWELL: REALT NA MARA was 4th (of 6!) at 9/2 (BSP 6.58): £19 profit

25/27: Bank = £1239: profit = £239

(no NH racing!)

DAY 27: WEDNESDAY 4TH FEB

1.30 LINGFIELD: MAJEHAR was unplaced at 12/1 (BSP 17.9): £19 profit

26/28: Bank = £1258: profit of £258

(no NH racing again!)

DAY 28: THURSDAY 5TH FEB

4.30 SOUTHWELL: ONEMOREANDSTAY was 5th (of 5!) at 7/1 (BSP 12.42): £19 profit

27/29: Bank = £1277: profit = £277

(no NH selection)

—————————————————————————

***That’s the end of the 4th week:

5 out of 5 this week to make it 27/29 (93.1% SR): another 4.75pts banked. Total profit = 13.85pts, bank has now increased by 27.7% in 4 weeks.

( Using the recommended 14% stakes: the bank has increased by 65.41%!)

8 out of 9 for the NH to make it 19/20 (95% SR): another 4.57pts banked. Total profit = 15.02pts, bank has increased by 30% in 4 weeks.***

( Using the recommended 14% stakes: the bank has increased by 29.6%)

Current average odds are: 10.18 for flat racing & 9.68 for jumps.

————————————————————————————-

DAY 29: FRIDAY 6TH FEB:

7.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: AMERICAN SPIN was 2nd at 2/1 (BSP 4.04): £19 profit

28/30: Bank = £1296: £296 profit

(no NH selections)

DAY 30: SATURDAY 7TH FEB

No bet.

(One successful NH selection at 14/1 (BSP 18.0): NH now 20/21 for +£319.40)

DAY 31: SUNDAY 8TH FEB:

3.10 KEMPTON: LAST SOVEREIGN won at 7/1 (BSP 9.2): loss of £164

4.40 KEMPTON: MUKTASB was 3rd at 12/1 (BSP 24.22): profit of £19

1/2 today for a loss of £145.

Now 29/32: Bank = £1151: profit of £151

(No NH racing)

DAY 32:MONDAY 9th FEB

4.30 WOLVERHAMPTON: HILBRE COURT was 10th at 15/2 (BSP 9.19): profit of £19

30/33: bank = £1170: profit = £170.

(no NH selections)

DAY 33: TUESDAY 10TH FEB:

No bets (and no NH racing!)

DAY 34: WEDNESDAY 11TH FEB:

3.05 KEMPTON: MOCHA JAVA was 5th at 4.1 (BSP 5.94): profit of £19

3.40 LINGFIELD: KIPCHAK won at 5/1 (BSP 6.98): loss of £119.60

1/2 today for a £100.60 loss.

Now 31/35 (88.57%). Bank = £1069.40: profit of £69.40

DAY 35: THURSDAY 12TH FEB

1.20 SOUTHWELL: GENERAL TUFTO won at 5/1 (BSP 6.61): loss of  £112.20

Now 31/36: Bank = £ 957.20. Loss of £42.80 to date

DAY 36: FRIDAY 13TH FEB

2.25 WOLVERHAMPTON: THE GEESTER was 2nd at 5/1 (BSP 5.93): £19 profit

4.05 WOLVERHAMPTON: CAPRICORN RUN was 3rd at 6/1 (BSP 8.0): £19 profit

2/2 today for £38 profit: hopefully a corner has been turned.

Now 33/38 (86.84%). Bank = £995.20: Currently a £4.80 loss.

(No NH selections)

DAY 37: SATURDAY 14TH FEB

3.05 LINGFIELD: RISQUE HEIGHTS was 6th at 5/1 (BSP 7.85) : +£19

6.50 WOLVERHAMPTON: KING of LEGEND was 3rd at 8/1 (BSP 10.72): +£19

9.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: IMPERIAL HARRY was 8th at 7/1 (BSP 8.69): +£19

Love was in the air today! 3/3 for £57 profit to get us back on track.

Now 36/41: Bank = £ 1052.20: profit = £52.20

(One successful NH lay today at 16/1: BSP 28.89. NH selections now 21/22 for +£338.40)

DAY 38: SUNDAY 15th FEB

No bets.

DAY 39: MONDAY 16TH FEB:

No bets.
(One successful NH lay today at 14/1: BSP 18.50. NH selections now 22/23 for +£357.40)

DAY40: TUESDAY 17TH FEB

2.40 WOLVERHAMPTON: NAWAAFF was 12th (of 12!) at 11/2 (BSP 8.5): +£19

4.40 WOLVERHAMPTON: NIGHTJAR was 9th (of 11) at 15/2 (BSP13.46): +£19

2/2 today for £38 profit. Now 38/43 for a total profit of  £90.20

(No NH selections today)

DAY 41: WEDNESDAY 18TH FEB

6.50 KEMPTON: TOWY VALLEY was 3rd at 15/2 (BSP 9.5): profit of £19

Now 39/44 for a profit of £109.20

(One successful NH selection today at 3/1 [BSP 4.50]: NH now 23/24 for +£376.40)

DAY 42: THURSDAY 19TH FEB

No Bets.

(One successful NH lay at 17/2 [BSP 9.95]: NH now 24/25 for +£395.40)

**** So, that’s 6 whole weeks already!

Flat bets are 39/44 (SR=88.64%): Profit at level stakes of £20 per lay to win £19 = £109.20

Staking at 14% liability, the profit is £27.99 and the next bet would have a liability of £187.08.

NH bets are 24/25 (SR=96%): Profit at £20 level stakes = £395.40

Staking 14% liability: Profit = £354.96 and the next bet’s liability would be £189.69. ****

DAY 43: FRIDAY 20TH FEB

1.55 SOUTHWELL: KIPCHAK was 3rd at 5/1 (BSP 6.41): £19 profit at level stakes. £32.85 profit at 14% stakes.

4.50 SOUTHWELL: BRIGHT SPARKY was 11th at 12/1 (BSP 20.31): +£19 or £9.20

Now 41/46. Profit = £147.20 (level stakes)  or £70.04 (14% liability: stakes remain at £187.08 until we’re £337 in profit)

(2 successful NH selections yesterday at 9/1 & 5/1: profits of £38 (LS) and £47.59 (@14%)

NH now 26/27: profit of £433.40 (LS) and £402.55 (@14%): next stake = £196.36

DAY 44: SATURDAY 21ST FEB:

No Bets.

(One NH selection, which won it’s race at 7/1 and a BSP of 10.24. Losses of £184.80 (LS) & £196.36 (14%)

NH now 26/28: profits are now £248.60 (LS) & £206.19 (14%). 14% staking remains at £196.36 until this loss is recouped.

DAY 45: SUNDAY 22ND FEB:

No Bets ( and no NH either)

DAY 46: MONDAY 23RD FEB:

2.10 WOLVERHAMPTON: PERLACHY won at 6.1 (BSP 7.84)

Losses of  £136.80 (LS) & £187.08 (14%)

Now 41/47 (87.23%): P/L = +£10.40 (LS) &  -£117.04 (14%)

DAY 47: TUESDAY 24TH FEB:

5.00 LINGFIELD: SIR LIAM was 2nd at 4/1 (BSP 5.88): profit of £19 (LS) & £36.42 (14%)

Now 42/48 (87.5%): P/L = +£29.40 (LS) & -£80.62 (14%)

DAY 48: WEDNESDAY 25TH FEB:

2.30 WOLVERHAMPTON: ALL YOU NEED was 8th at 100/30 (BSP 5.27): profit of £19 & £41.62

Now 43/49 ( 87.76%): P/L = +£48.40 (LS) & -£39.00 (14%)

DAY 49: THURSDAY 26TH FEB

8.50 WOLVERHAMPTON: GALLANTRY won at 20/1 (BSP 26.13): loss of £502.60 (LS) & £187.08 (14%)

Now 43/50 (86%). P/L = -£454.20 (LS) & -£226.08 (14%)

DAY 50: FRIDAY 27TH FEB

5.05 LINGFIELD: WELSH OPERA was 7th at 7/1 (BSP 9.44): profit of £19 (LS) & £21.06 (14%)

Now 44/51 (86.27%): P/L = -435.20 (LS) & -£205.02(14%)

2/2 on NH selections today: BSP’s of 7.68 & 9.0: profits of £38 (LS) & £51.24 (14%)

NH now 28/30 (93.33%): P/L = £286.60 (LS) & £257.43 (14%)

DAY 51: SATURDAY 28TH FEB

No Bets

(No NH either)

DAY 52: SUNDAY 1ST MARCH

3.20 LINGFIELD: WABRAAN was 6th at 16/1 (BSP 25.78): profit of £19 (LS) & £7.17 (14%)

Now 45/52 (86.54%). P/L = -£416.20 (LS) &  -£197.85 (14%)

(2 NH bets today: a success at 6.46, one unsuccessful at 4.14. Loss of £43.80 (LS) & £196.36 (14%).

NH now 29/32 ( 90.63%). P/L = +£242.80 (LS) & £61.07 (14%). )

DAY 53: MONDAY 2ND MARCH

No bets on either system.

DAY 54: TUESDAY 3RD MARCH

4.40 SOUTHWELL: EXIT SMILING was 4th at 14/1 (BSP 23.34) Profit of £19 (LS) & £7.96 (14%)

Now 46/53 (86.79%): P/L = -£397.20 (LS) & -£189.89 (14%)

(1 successful NH selection at 12.93. Profit of £19 (LS) & £15.64 (14%).

NH now 30/33 (90.91%) P/L = +£261.80 (LS) & £76.71 (14%) )

DAY 55: WEDNESDAY 4TH MARCH

2.10 LINGFIELD: SHARP’S GOLD was 6th at 16/1 (BSP 33.21!): profit of £19 (LS) & £5.52 (14%)

Now 47/54 (87.04%) P/L = -£378.20 (LS) & -£184.37 (14%)

(No NH bets.)

DAY 56: THURSDAY 5TH MARCH

8.50 WOLVERHAMPTON: DREAM OF FORTUNE was 2nd at 10/1 (BSP 14.8): profit of £19 (LS) & £12.88 (14%)

Now 48/55 (87.27%) P/L = -£359.20 (LS) & -£171.49 (14%)

(No NH Bets)

DAY 57: FRIDAY 6TH MARCH

8.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: AL MUHEER won at 5/1 (BSP 7.88)

8.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: TOUS LES DEUX was 2nd at 8/1 (BSP 12.09)

Losses of £117.60 (LS) & £170.21 (14%): 1/2 today

Now 49/57 (85.96%). P/L = -£476.80 (LS) & -£341.70 (14%)

(No NH bets)

DAY 58: SATURDAY 7TH MARCH

No bets on either system.

DAY 59: SUNDAY 8TH MARCH

No bets

DAY 60: MONDAY 9TH MARCH

No bets

DAY 61:TUESDAY 10TH MARCH

No bets on either system

DAY 62: WEDNESDAY 11TH MARCH

8.20 KEMPTON: KING OLAV was 2nd at 14/1 (BSP 22.91): profit of £19 (LS) & £8.11 (14%)

9.20 KEMPTON: FUN IN THE SUN was 8th at 11/2 (BSP 8.02): profit of £19 (LS) & £25.32 (14%)

2/2 today for +£38 (LS) & +£33.43 (14%)

Now 51/58 (87.93%). P/L = -£438.80 (LS) & -£316.38 (14%)

(No NH bets)

DAY 63: THURSDAY 12TH MARCH

No bets (it was a non-runner!)

One NH selection, which won at 8/1 (BSP 11.86) for a loss of £217.20 (LS) & £196.36 (14%)

NH is now 30/34 (88.24%). P/L = +41.60 (LS) & -£119.65 (14%)

DAY 64: FRIDAY 13TH MARCH

5.40 LINGFIELD: BAVARICA was 6th at 13/2 (BSP 6.97): +£19 (LS): +£29.77 (14%)

7.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: TEEN AGER was 10th at 11/2 (BSP 7.5): +£19 (LS): +£27.34 (14%)

8.20 WOLVERHAMPTON: RAVI RIVER was 7th at 7/1 (BSP 9.98): +£19 (LS): +£19.79 (14%)

3/3 today for +£57 (LS) & +£76.90 (14%)

Now 54/61 (88.52%). P/L = -£381.80 (LS) & -£239.48 (14%)

DAY 65: SATURDAY 14TH MARCH

No bets on either system

DAY 66: SUNDAY 15TH MARCH

No bets on either system

DAY 67: MONDAY 15TH MARCH

No bets on either system

DAY 68: TUESDAY 16TH MARCH

No bets on flat.

(1 successful NH selection at 6.2: profit of £19 (LS) & £35.87 (14%)

NH now 31/35 (88.57%): P/L = £60.60 (LS) & £108.70 (14%)

ADMIN: We have now been running the test for some time and it has not lived up to our hopes and expectations. However, I have heard from many people who are satisfied with the system and it seems like we have ran the trial in some bad months which of course always occur with every kind of system. The reason could be that there has been a lot of exposure for winners to losers in the last couple of months which could have made the Betfair prices higher than normal.

I will put it under NEUTRAL SYSTEMS and see how it goes in the future. Maybe a system to get back to when most people have given up on it and the Betfair prices are better :-) But not something I would recommend at the moment.

Comments

245 Responses to “Winners to Losers Review – Test of Winnerstolosers”

  1. DW on January 15th, 2009 2:48 pm

    If I’ve understood this system right then you can make the selection(s) in the morning or evening like Fancy Fillies System right?
    So if this system works, then its a lot better than Fancy Fillies (fancys strike rate is 61,25) right?
    Thanks
    Daniel

  2. mike on January 15th, 2009 6:43 pm

    You can make the selections as soon as the prices appear on the racing post website – usually from 3pm onwards the previous day.

    mike

  3. Jon on January 15th, 2009 7:50 pm

    Daniel

    The Fancy Filly strike rate has averaged at 67% in the last two years and around 75% in the last four months. The systemalso works to level stakes and you are laying to a much lower liability than Winners To Losers.

    Lay prices of 10/1 and 12/1 will one day damage the bank, imo!

    It’s all about your judgement of risk and reward and your personal comfort zone.

  4. Robert on January 15th, 2009 9:59 pm

    I think those prices would have me running to the toilet befor s/p.Have’nt bought it yet and i dout i will at those prices. Say what you like about FF yes
    they lost yesterday and today but you will get your losses back much quicker.They may bost 90% strike rate but i could’nt take the stomach pains
    before the off on 10/1 14/1 prices so thumbs down for me.
    yours Robert

  5. chris on January 15th, 2009 10:10 pm

    You can make the selections the night before, if you wish. Without giving the game away, you just need to check the 7 rules and away you go. The only variable in the system is the price you accept from the exchange. I’m declaring any losses (hopefully, none!) at Betfair SP.

  6. Fernie on January 16th, 2009 12:35 am

    Hi Daniel

    I don’t have Fancy Fillies, but you need to consider that Some of the above lays have quite high odds and you only need a couple to come home…

    If FF has a lower max lay, the strike rate can afford to be lower – don’t you agree?

    Cheers

    Simon

  7. Fernie on January 16th, 2009 12:36 am

    Sorry… I should have also pointed out that nor am I having a go at Winners to Losers as Idon’t have that either and it does get good reviews – looking forward to folowing Chris’s here!

  8. Marc on January 16th, 2009 2:39 am

    Hi Chris,

    We all really appreciate you doing this test, but surely you should be quoting us the BetFair SP of your selection since this is the price that you will be using if we lay a winner…..?

    The BetFair SP of your first eight selections read as follow:

    22.24
    17.41
    16.62
    6.77
    11.30
    22.00
    5.92
    9.25

    Maybe, looking at those figures, probably it is best not to, since they really are “Scary” prices to lay at……?

    -Marc

  9. david on January 16th, 2009 1:15 pm

    I am un-sure how quick off the mark was a selection yesterday.

    may i contact you by e-mail to make sure i have the right rules for this system please?
    david smith

    Chris edited this post to remove a potential hint to selection criteria.

  10. Joe Sixpack on January 16th, 2009 6:58 pm

    @Admin

    In fairness to the Authors it might be worth a thought to edit a few words out of the last posting because it concerns a portion of the System rules that is not exactly unimportant !

    Cheers

  11. Joe Sixpack on January 16th, 2009 7:02 pm

    Besides:

    I can confirm “Quick of the Mark” was a selection.

    Just use the “AT THE RACES” Website in conjunction with the RP.

    Saves a lot of time.

  12. Mark LV on January 16th, 2009 9:43 pm

    There has been a study done of ‘Winners to Losers’ by the Secretbettingclub. They back tested the system several years and the test showed that the system has only been profitable since the second half of 2004. On this basis they don’t feel they can recommend it. Having said that, since late 2004 the system has been very profitable, so you can read into this what you wish. Anyway, I would always be nervous about laying at 10/1 etc. Even if the system is profitable you would require a really massive betting bank.

  13. Mikey on January 16th, 2009 11:27 pm

    I have a feeling the Rules or Filters as I like to call them are similar to what i use myself?

  14. chris on January 17th, 2009 1:31 am

    Marc,
    Whether we quote Bookies SP or Betfair SP for successful bets is splitting hairs really. The prices only really matter if we lose, but I appreciate your point. I can quote Betfair SP if you like.

    David,

    you can email me at: traffordwhite at yahoo dot co dot uk

  15. mike on January 17th, 2009 1:53 am

    Check chalice welcome – i dont think thst was a selection – doesnt qualify rule 7

    mike

  16. Joe Sixpack on January 17th, 2009 2:57 am

    “Chalice Welcome” 4.05 @Lingfield was no Selection according to Rule 7 in the Manual.

    Cheers

  17. Jon on January 17th, 2009 6:05 pm

    Marc’s comments about BF SP says it all. Anyone can boast a 90%+ strike rate with claims of making an easy 50k a year etc at 100 quid stakes, but who in their right mind is going to risk 2,000 + to win 100?

    Why show bookmakers SP? We all know those prices are hardly ever the same as Betfair and the longer the price, quite often the bigger the differential between BF and bookmakers.

    Not for me

    Jon

  18. steve on January 17th, 2009 8:44 pm

    Chris
    i had 4 selections yesterday , all losers
    chalice welcome was not a selection.

    Edited by Chris, to remove a system rule.

  19. chris on January 18th, 2009 11:50 pm

    The owners of Winners To Losers actually email me the selections daily. I’m only giving out the info they’re giving me.

    They said there were 3 qualifiers on Friday, including Chalice Welcome!

  20. chris on January 18th, 2009 11:55 pm

    FAO Mike, Joe Sixpack and Steve:

    Looking back at Chalice Welcome’s history, you need to disregard its last race before Friday.

    Friday was on the flat, but the previous outing was over jumps, so that doesn’t count. Based on its last outing on the flat, it became a selection.

    The owners could have backed out and said it wasn’t a selection, but they haven’t.

  21. Joe Sixpack on January 19th, 2009 1:52 am

    Damn,… my apologys i am using this system for quite a while now but obviously i got the race type Stuff wrong :) Silly me.

    Just rechecked the manual,… and indeed it was a selection.

    Cheers

  22. chris on January 19th, 2009 2:05 am

    Jon,
    You’re quite right to repeat the comment about there being a large variance in SP to BSP. I never suggested that anyone could or does lay at Bookies SP. Some might lay shorter, some might lay longer.

    I quote both Bookies SP and Betfair SP, so I don’t see the issue here.

  23. Joe Sixpack on January 19th, 2009 2:21 am

    Just rechecked the Manual and the RP Site,… and it seems that i dont get my head around that particular Selection, It seems that it should have been a selection so obviously i am overlooking something…. i will contact the author for Support,… judging from my experience with them those guys seem quite accessible and helpfull.

    Cheers

  24. TonyT on January 19th, 2009 3:15 pm

    I thought I got the hang of this but your selection process seems a little different. I didn’t get Chalice Welcome as its last race was run over NH rules and was disregarded. I didn’t get Safin Sunday 18th as a bet either. Maybe someone can explain?

    Edited by Chris to remove one of the system rules.

  25. TonyT on January 19th, 2009 3:21 pm

    Chris

    About Chalice Welcome, OK so what the manual means by disregarded means pretend thats not there? I took it as disregard the selection altogether!

  26. TonyT on January 19th, 2009 3:23 pm

    Chris

    My mistake just gone back to Safins history and yes you are quite right , it was a selection, now that we have all agreed on what disregard means!

  27. steve on January 19th, 2009 5:28 pm

    I didn’t get safin yesterday, either.
    I got dvinsky in the 4.50 at kempton.
    I must be doing something wrong! lol
    but as long as they loose, i’m not bothered.

  28. Joe Sixpack on January 19th, 2009 7:06 pm

    Well i contacted the Authors and after i got a Reply with an explanation i thouroughly rechecked the Manual and the Rules and indeed Chalice Welcome was a Selection,…. tricky stuff that System :) ……thought i got the hang of it but i have to admit that i browsed the Race history too superficial…..One has to look closer !

    Cheers

  29. chris on January 19th, 2009 7:59 pm

    ***The rules do need to be followed closely. The owners of the system are emailing me the selections, so you can be assured they’re the right ones!”

    IF YOU DISAGREE WITH THEM, PLEASE TRY NOT TO DISCLOSE ANY OF THE SYSTEM RULES IN YOUR PUBLIC MESSAGES, THANKS!***

  30. TonyT on January 20th, 2009 2:14 pm

    I make 2 selections for today would that be correct?

  31. chris on January 20th, 2009 6:14 pm

    3 today Tony inc NH! All turned over too!
    But yes 2 on flat.

  32. Joe Sixpack on January 20th, 2009 8:37 pm

    I got 3 Flat Selections today,…. thank God the Authors answer E Mails quickly,…. i made another Selection Failure…..just rechecked, Silly me….. :(

  33. JohnMalko on January 21st, 2009 12:45 pm

    The W2L ssytem profits looks impressive.

    But i’m wondering how they can manage to get their 1000 £ bet matched on Betfair ???

  34. nightshiftman on January 21st, 2009 1:19 pm

    Lucking pretty good W2L would be good to see how it goes over the NH season.
    Betfair SPs ok for collecting data, but anybody who lays at sp is bl00dy insane imo
    Lee

  35. chris on January 21st, 2009 1:54 pm

    Lee,
    You’re right about laying at SP, but it’s the only quantifiable and checkable stat I can use for the trial purpose.

  36. TonyT on January 21st, 2009 2:51 pm

    I agree with Chris, looking back at my own results, there have been times I laid way under sp and times I was over the sp but I think it should even itself out over time and we should more or less get the same profit. Like yesterday I got Manbo Sun at 5.7 and Il grande Ardone at 7.4 and both lost so we got the same level stake profit.

  37. Marc on January 22nd, 2009 10:45 pm

    Red Hot favourite is a selection for Friday…Could be looking at a winning selection….At least the BFSP should be relatively small……

  38. chris on January 23rd, 2009 1:14 am

    Hopefully it, too, will get turned over!

  39. TonyT on January 23rd, 2009 4:58 pm

    Ahh well, a winner but minimal harm done to the bank as I laid at 4.1

  40. 337 on January 23rd, 2009 7:46 pm

    Did every get ‘Whiskey Creek’ as a selection today? It won, anyway.

  41. nightshiftman on January 23rd, 2009 8:32 pm

    Hows it gone today Chris ??

    Lee

  42. chris on January 24th, 2009 12:11 am

    You did well enough there TonyT, saved yourself 0.3 of a point off BSP. It all helps.

  43. George on January 25th, 2009 2:51 pm

    I see a lot of lads are giving out about the prices that some selections have to be laid at but does it really matter as W2L recommended staking plan is to lay at 14% liability of your bank so the lower the price the more you you win the higher the price the less you win. but if you lose you lose the same amount no matter what the price of the horse. Also with such a good strike rate would be silly not to use loss recovery if you can a afford to. I dont normally like any progressive or loss recovery methods but with the strike rate of this system I do. And Im showing very healthy profits from doing so. Also if I dont get fully matched on BF I cancel unmatched and go to other exchanges. If thought about level stakes with such high priced horses is crazy, use the recommended staking plan and then you will see the profits.

  44. TonyT on January 25th, 2009 3:16 pm

    I think if you have a bot or available before the race to place the bet you can get better than sp most of the time. I got 7.6 for Billy Red, whereas the bsp was 8.6, it helps boost the profits for the liability plan.

  45. chris on January 25th, 2009 8:12 pm

    George,

    I fully agree with what you say, but I’m trialling this on level stakes for one simple reason.
    If a laying system can’t be profitable at level stakes, we really shouldn’t be using it, in my opinion.

  46. aidan on January 25th, 2009 9:22 pm

    are the selections sent to you or are do you have to pay extra for that

  47. chris on January 26th, 2009 12:10 am

    Aidan,

    I get them sent to me for free, because I’m trialling the system. I shall email Dave from Winners To Losers and ask for you.

  48. George on January 26th, 2009 9:31 am

    hi Chris,

    Yes I understand for the trial its level stakes and should finish profitable. Great site by the way. Just Jons comments about the system annoyed me slightly, no risking 2000 to win 100 might not suit everyone but this is a genuine working system and as I use loss recovery with it I made more than the w2l sales page last year! Put simply it works. 14% of 1000 starting bank is 140. 14% of 100000bank is 14000. If people can see past the scary amounts and realise the profits they will be glad.

  49. chris on January 26th, 2009 2:49 pm

    George,
    I couldn’t agree more. laying at % liability means your bank chooses the stakes it can handle.

    Aidan,
    The email service is £19 per month, but you’ll also get the bonus NH selections too including in that price.

    It’s here: http://www.winnerstolosers.com/email_service.php

  50. nightshiftman on January 26th, 2009 11:31 pm

    Looks a bargin at that price Chris, does seem to be doing very nicley. And that back results look to be ok.
    Could be a system for the portfoilo

    Lee

  51. Jow Sixpack on January 27th, 2009 1:33 am

    Well i bought this one over a year ago,…. and finaly decided to put it to use after a long observational period,…. cant complain so far….. but with this System getting positive Reviews everywhere,… the odds will be even more redicolous in the future i guess :)

  52. chris on January 27th, 2009 1:05 pm

    The odds won’t be any different IMO. You don’t have to wait until just before the off to place the bet. Many of these horses are drifters anyway and can often be laid at shorter odds in the mornings!

  53. TonyT on January 27th, 2009 1:21 pm

    The early price for Smirfys systems was 5.2 compared to 8.84 BSP so PROFITS PROFITS PROFITS for the liability plan.

    George, so you reckon the 14% should be used? I have reduced it to a slighlty less scarey amount at 10%.

    Thats going to be the main problem I think is that everyone is going to jump onto this and when we get a high odds horse, its going to push out the odds even more as money on higher priced nags tend to limited.

  54. Dave on January 27th, 2009 1:24 pm

    Hi George, question for you regarding the loss recovery plan you use. What is the longest losing run you have experienced with this system so far? I bought this system a while ago and used it for a bit but found I didnt have the time to do the selection process every day. I have just subscribed to the email service and am starting with a very low bank of £100. I am hoping to grow it slowly. Many thanks, Dave.

  55. TonyT on January 27th, 2009 2:46 pm

    Dave,

    You must be a very busy person. once you know the rules off by heart it takes me no more than 5-10 mins per day to find the selections, although at first there was a slight misunderstanding from one of the rules but once that was cleared up all my selections have been exactly the same as Chris’ test.

  56. Dave on January 27th, 2009 4:21 pm

    TonyT, Thanks I know it doesnt take long its just that of an evening I have other priorities like spending time with a new baby, house DIY projects etc etc. By the time I sit down to relax it is not in my mind to do the selections and it gets forgotten. I dont like going through it at work for obvious reasons. I am happy paying 20 quid a month for the service, if it can pay for itself and give me a bit too. I am interested in using a loss recovery plan but am worried that 3 losses on the spin would wipe me out! Cheers, Dave

  57. George on January 27th, 2009 7:48 pm

    @TonyT

    Yes defo use 14% it has such a good strike rate your just lowering your profits using 10%. Or even use 10% til you have doubled your bank then withdraw your original bank and start with 14% with your winnings.

    @Dave

    I bought the system around july 2007 and was just using the 14% liability they recommended when I realised how good the system was I changed to loss recovery aswel for 2008. I lay at 14% liability and if I have a loss I divide the loss by 5 and add it to the next 5 lays, If I get another loss in the meantime I do the same again and add it also. longest losing run was 3 and believe me I almost started to panic. But after that it just went on to make serious money. I finished up with a lot more than the w2l sales page because of the loss recovery. Only downside is when your bank builds its a bit of a pain in the arse having to jump between exchanges to get fully matched. A few times I had to spend a few hours just getting the bets matched but all in all well worth it.

    Also can be a bit frustrating when a horse I fancy qualifies as a lay and goes on to win!!

  58. 337 on January 27th, 2009 9:21 pm

    Please could someone tell me why Mrs Bun wasn’t a qualifier today (Tuesday)? :-s I had this one down. Many thanks.

  59. chris on January 27th, 2009 9:26 pm

    @ George,

    I’ve worked back through the stats of this current trial and the way I see it, is that a 14% fixed liability on each of the 21 bets so far would see my bank at £1131 and be 2/5 of the way through a loss recovery cycle, aiming to recoup an extra £33.50 per bet.

  60. Donald on January 27th, 2009 10:40 pm

    Hi,

    I have been using this system since May 07 on level stakes and with the recomended staking plan (14%) I have also been using the recomended bank. The liability staking plan did not work I end up losing all my bank when the run of 3 loses came along. I also had a number of issues liquidity issues which further added to the problem its ok saying you wish to lay a horse with £1000 but try getting it matched when the horse is drifting, and there are a number of prople using the same system! Level stakes turns over an ok profit, but I found it to be no where near that listed on the sales page, you can go for weeks winning then bang you lose at 15/1 and it hurts. The more people that use the system the worse it will become which is a shame. In my opion I would use another laying system, personaly I use a combination of 5 this seems to work ok.

  61. chris on January 28th, 2009 2:10 am

    @337,

    I’ll find out for you.

  62. chris on January 28th, 2009 2:27 am

    @ Donald, why would 3 losses wipe out your bank?

    At 14% liability your bank would reduce by 36.4%. Even after 9 consecutive losses you’d still have 25% of your bank left.

  63. TonyT on January 28th, 2009 10:30 am

    Donald

    Sure you got your sums right? Wiped out your bank with 3 losing runs at fixed liability?

    GEORGE

    How is the new betfair premium charge affecting your profits?

  64. TonyT on January 28th, 2009 10:39 am

    337

    I think Mrs Bun failed on one rule to qualify. I didn’t have it as a selection either although it qualified in other rules. If you laid it then good as you got extra profit, losing at 7/4.

    Chris edited this to remove the rule itself, although TonyT was spot on!

  65. chris on January 28th, 2009 10:55 am

    Dave from Winners To Losers comes across as a very approachable bloke, and is willing to answer your queries about non-selections etc.

    You can email him via: dave AT winnerstolosers DOT com Obviously replace the AT and DOT with @ & . !!!

  66. fabian on January 28th, 2009 1:58 pm

    I have been using W2L for some time now – no
    complains better still now that you subscribe
    to mail sercie makes you life easier – at least
    it does for me. Dave the administrator of W2L
    is avery very helpful person. Good luck to those
    who buy and suscribe to W2L. For me the 14% liability
    is a good enough safety net.

  67. TonyT on January 29th, 2009 10:42 am

    Quiet few days, but plenty of action today, fingers crossed for another profitable day.

  68. chris on January 29th, 2009 1:37 pm

    Yes Tony, an interesting day in prospect and the odds don’t look too long either!

  69. TonyT on January 29th, 2009 5:55 pm

    Wow first 2 lays were backed off the board and I was getting really edgy but a loser is a loser. 1 more to go…

  70. TonyT on January 29th, 2009 6:15 pm

    Woo hoo 3 out of 3. nice profit banked, will keep me smiling all day!

  71. chris on January 29th, 2009 6:28 pm

    Tony,
    I said they looked shorter than usual today!
    An excellent day for level staking, but an outstanding day for the 14% liability stakes: the bank increased by over 12% in just over an hour!

  72. chris on January 29th, 2009 6:28 pm

    P.S. A 5/1 selection on the NH lays duly obliged too!

  73. aidan on January 29th, 2009 8:18 pm

    to all people who have bought this is there any reason i should not buy this as i think i will take the chance

  74. Joe Sixpack on January 30th, 2009 12:55 am

    Well i have the System in my Portfolio and i am satisfied.

    Cheers

  75. TonyT on January 30th, 2009 1:49 am

    Don’t buy this Aiden because the more people who get on, the higher the lay odds on the higher priced selections! Don’t ruin it for us please… :)

  76. Joe Sixpack on January 30th, 2009 4:52 am

    Ha ha Tommorrows one and only System Selection currently trading at 24 on BF,…. nice to see that people like the System….. :) …..

    2 more Weeks of Trailing and we can put it into Not Recommended because it works so good that no more odds are availiable…. Funny.

  77. TonyT on January 30th, 2009 11:31 am

    Joe Sixpack

    If its the same selection we got then the price has come down a bit since last night and I can see that money was traded at 20s !! Its around 7s at the moment.

  78. JohnMalko on January 30th, 2009 3:19 pm

    and another winning bet !

  79. JohnMalko on January 30th, 2009 3:24 pm

    By the way, I think I’ll skip today’s NH selections : 3 horses in the same race !

    I don’t feel comfortable with that. I know that your normally have to stick to the rules but IMO it’s too risky today.

  80. TonyT on January 30th, 2009 3:50 pm

    Yes another winning bet today, it was backed off the board like our previous lays. So no problems with liquidity at the moment with these shorter priced lays.

  81. chris on January 30th, 2009 4:01 pm

    You should have laid them, John!

  82. JohnMalko on January 30th, 2009 4:28 pm

    You’re right and I was wrong :-(
    I was about to place a lay bet but the odds were far too high for me considering that those 3 horses were running in the same race.

    But I’m not too sad coz in the meantime I have backed the winner : De Boitron… Very nice profit today ! ;-)

  83. Joe Sixpack on January 30th, 2009 7:38 pm

    Yeah the Horse came down in Prize,…. but the early market Odds suggested that you lot all wanted to jump on the Moneytrain :) ;)

  84. jorgefergo on January 31st, 2009 3:06 am

    are the selectons of the original system the same selections they send from de new email service or are they diferent?

  85. TonyT on January 31st, 2009 6:27 pm

    Winner winner Chicken Dinner, another low priced nag gets turned over ker ching!!!(To be honest I was gripping the edge of my seat when he ran for home leading)

  86. chris on February 1st, 2009 2:23 am

    Jorgefergo:

    I find the selections manually and then check them against the email service and they always seem to be the same.

  87. jorgefergo on February 1st, 2009 11:48 pm

    are the odds of the selections the right ones? because i think the odds they show in the result page are lower than the real ones at the time to lay at betfair, am i right?

  88. chris on February 2nd, 2009 1:16 am

    Jorgefergo,

    I’m quoting the Betfair SP. All the bets are laid just before the off and I’m never more than one click/increment away from BSP. Sometimes I lay slightly higher and sometimes slightly lower: it evens itself really.

  89. jorgefergo on February 2nd, 2009 2:53 am

    in the page of winnwer to losers since yesterday we can see the results so far this year, but where can we see the results of the email service?

  90. chris on February 2nd, 2009 12:10 pm

    Jorgefergo,

    See my reply no. 86.
    The email service selections are the same as shown on the results pages.

  91. aidan on February 3rd, 2009 9:17 pm

    just bought the system i have run the test and can someone tell me if i right that there is 1 lay tomorrow in lingfield no name mentioned

  92. chris on February 3rd, 2009 10:34 pm

    Aidan,

    I think you’re right.

  93. TonyT on February 4th, 2009 10:35 am

    Aiden aiden, I thought we told you not to buy this rubbish! ;) (one more person to destroy the liquidity) Anyhow, yes there is one today that I have also picked out and yesterday was another chicken dinner! more of the same today I hope.

  94. cmt on February 4th, 2009 8:00 pm

    Hi,

    Although i understand you can pick selections the night before, could someone please let me know at what point the bet needs to be place? Is it just before the off? I need to know this before decided whether to purchase or not.

    Thanks

  95. TonyT on February 5th, 2009 1:31 am

    CMT

    You can place the bet anytime you want, we will get the same selections, its just our lay prices could differ slightly. if we knew what the best time to place these lays were and knew if they would shorten or drift we would be traders. However, todays lay Majehar when I checked in the morning was trading at 9.0 and was around 12.5, 10 mins before off and then drifting out to 17 -18 1 min before off.

  96. TonyT on February 5th, 2009 11:26 am

    Chris

    I get 3 selections today, but 2 of the horses are in the same race is that correct?

  97. chris on February 5th, 2009 12:05 pm

    TonyT,
    To be honest: I’ve not checked yet. I’ll check now and come back to you. But it’s possible to have more than one in a race: there were 3 in the same race last week, I think.

  98. chris on February 5th, 2009 12:14 pm

    TonyT,

    Just had a run through the cards and I agree with you.

  99. Joe Sixpack on February 5th, 2009 12:23 pm

    Hmm,…. i get 5 for today, Cheers

  100. mike on February 5th, 2009 1:24 pm

    5? i got 3

    add me mikeW2L@hotmail.co.uk if u want and we can double check selections – who ever wants to

  101. TonyT on February 5th, 2009 2:35 pm

    Theres only 1 now with wolv being off. Chris can confirm if theres only 1 excluding NH as he is getting them direct from the source.

  102. chris on February 5th, 2009 3:24 pm

    Just one today.
    There were 2 others at Wolves, but that’s off.

  103. chris on February 5th, 2009 3:25 pm

    PS No NH ones either.

  104. Joe Sixpack on February 5th, 2009 4:17 pm

    Well i just rechecked and i am pretty sure there are 2 Selections today (i was wrong with 1 other).

    There is one additional in the 4.30 Southwell which is a selection because of the “124″ Stuff (WTL Initiates :) , will know what i am talking about).

    I am pretty sure about that one and its currently trading at 13.00 :(

    Cheers

  105. TonyT on February 5th, 2009 4:45 pm

    I got the 4.30 but what is the other one you got?

  106. admin on February 5th, 2009 4:49 pm

    You are allowed to post the other runner today ;-)

  107. Joe Sixpack on February 5th, 2009 5:18 pm

    My Second one was in the 2.30.

  108. chris on February 5th, 2009 5:23 pm

    Joe, you have email!

  109. chris on February 5th, 2009 5:29 pm

    Joe,

    The other didn’t qualify. The last but one race was a NH race, not a flat one.

  110. Joe Sixpack on February 5th, 2009 7:04 pm

    Aha, have to recheck,…… besides…. my E Mail is a fake :) …. i just hacked in something to avoid the Penis enlargment adverts :) :) .

  111. Joe Sixpack on February 5th, 2009 7:08 pm

    Indeed,…. mistake at my end here…. probably because i was in a rush today when checking,….

    Cheers

  112. chris on February 5th, 2009 7:38 pm

    Joe, I’ll stop sending the penis enlargement emails the, shall I? ;-)

  113. Ben on February 6th, 2009 1:07 am

    Hey Guys

    I’ve just purchased the system and had 2 winners in 2 days!
    I had 4 slections for the day and emailed Dave as I wan’t confident with my selections. He emailed me back within an hour to tell me that there were 3 slections: Southwell Race 8 6. Onemoreandstay, and Wolverhampton Race 1 1. Backinthered, 6. Muktasb.
    I also had Southwell Race 4 3. Bluehills, but after double checking rule 7 as I was advised by Dave it was not a bet.

    The hardest part for me is that I’m from Australia and having trouble with a few different types of races e.g. chaser, that we don’t come across in Aus.

    Great site by the way too Chris!

  114. chris on February 6th, 2009 1:27 am

    Hello Ben,

    Welcome to the Winners Enclosure!
    Thanks for the kind words, but it’s not my site! I’m just reviewing a couple of systems for Nikolaj, the site owner.

  115. Joe Sixpack on February 6th, 2009 8:34 am

    “The hardest part for me is that I’m from Australia and having trouble with a few different types of races e.g. chaser, that we don’t come across in Aus.”

    Well then you can surely imagine how surprised i have been when i first saw an Australian race with that cute little Chariots :) .

    Cheers

  116. Ben Johnson on February 6th, 2009 11:11 am

    Hi Chris and others

    Just wondering if you agree with me that there is one qualifier to day at Wolverhampton?

    Joesixpack, sorry mate I might be a little slow here but not sure what you mean with your comment!

  117. Marc on February 6th, 2009 1:15 pm

    Hi Ben,

    Yes there is one selection today at Wolverhampton…..

    I don’t want to put you off this selection, but I would be VERY careful with this one…Its price HALVED in space of TEN SECONDS this morning….Someone obviously knows more than we do…

    If you are doing this for the first time then reduce your stakes….

    Historically this system is very good but unfortunately when horses halve in price they are doing it for a reason and it does not matter how good a system is, it cannot compete with REAL information…

    Be Careful with this one……

  118. chris on February 6th, 2009 1:42 pm

    Hi Ben, Marc etc!

    Yes, just the one tonight. It is the one Marc is referring to, and it has indeed halved in price, BUT……….. there hasn’t actually been a flood of money for it. It has attracted most of the money in that race on betfair, but only £25k or so. It isn’t the best horse in the race and this race will prove tougher than its last one. But I fully accept that a little caution may be needed: it’s a system bet and in theory the shorter they trade the better for us.

  119. Joe Sixpack on February 6th, 2009 2:22 pm

    I was wondering about that particular Selection myself.

    Lets see how it turns out.

  120. chris on February 6th, 2009 2:38 pm

    The fav and one other fancied horse have now been pulled out from the race. I’m going to email WTL and see if they still recommend it as a bet.

  121. TonyT on February 6th, 2009 2:50 pm

    Which race are u guys on about, I cannot find one?

  122. Joe Sixpack on February 6th, 2009 2:57 pm

    I guess i let mine ride,….. i am down to 2.42 now with all those reduction factors :)

  123. Marc on February 6th, 2009 3:09 pm

    Technically the Wolverhampton selection cannot be regarded any more as a selection since its tissue price at the Racing Post has gone below the criteria……

  124. chris on February 6th, 2009 3:27 pm

    I agree with Marc’s logic on this issue. I’m still waiting for a reply from Dave at WTL.

  125. chris on February 6th, 2009 4:02 pm

    OK, guys: I have the answer from Dave at WTL.
    This is a copy of the email he has sent out.
    ——————————————-
    VERY IMPORTANT MESSAGE – PLEASE READ!

    I am being bombarded with emails asking if non-runners and/or price changes effect a selection. So here is clarification for anyone who needs it…

    The only rules for the system are the 7 stated. There are no other rules or conditional criteria whatsoever. Therefore you bet on all selections that pass all 7 rules regardless of any other factors. That is how past results and profits have been achieved.

    Kind regards,
    Dave
    Administrator
    http://www.winnerstolosers.com

  126. Joe Sixpack on February 6th, 2009 4:58 pm

    See thats what i like about this System,.. no second guessing ! You just take your bet like real men do without chickening out of your Position :)

  127. chris on February 6th, 2009 9:16 pm

    Ker-ching!

  128. aidan on February 6th, 2009 9:22 pm

    just.the weight got him

  129. JohnMalko on February 6th, 2009 9:23 pm

    2nd at least (by a neck !)

    And another winning bet with W2L !

  130. chris on February 7th, 2009 12:35 am

    They all count!

  131. Ben Johnson on February 7th, 2009 10:59 am

    I couldn’t find any bets today guys, correct?

  132. rjay on February 7th, 2009 1:11 pm

    Hello everyone,

    I am a newbie to this forum. Commenced W2L just over a week ago. I am using the 14% liability staking plan. Do my own selections, which have produced several cock-ups due to my sloppyness. Have changed my ways (no distractions). Hence, I was astounted that I have missed the only qualifier in Wov last night (had No. 10 which gone NR). Checked back the stats this morning and there it was plain to see (No.3). We learn and we grow!

    Anyhow, – I also have no selections for today.
    Reinhard

  133. chris on February 7th, 2009 1:23 pm

    There are OFFICIALLY no selections today, but those who subscribe to the email; service will receive a National Hunt selection.

  134. aidan on February 7th, 2009 2:39 pm

    day done 1 nh lay today and it pulled up

  135. Joe Sixpack on February 7th, 2009 3:34 pm

    The one NH Selection today was to much for my Stomach,…. 30 mins before the off @19.00 i skipped that one…… :(

  136. Tonyt on February 7th, 2009 5:16 pm

    I also like how W2L update their results every month so you can match your selections with theirs.

  137. JohnMalko on February 7th, 2009 6:38 pm

    Yes… And the NH selection was another winning bet !

  138. aidan on February 7th, 2009 8:44 pm

    but use the 14% bank staking its the same money you are losing as if it was a 5ta2 shot

  139. Joe Sixpack on February 8th, 2009 8:42 am

    Well well,….. looks like my fellow Parasites on here ;) …. are slowly driving the odds towards unprofitability….. Todays Selections are again at around 10 at the Moment, which means that a 90% Strike rate becomes nearly unprofitable :( …. Maybe its just the fact that its a weekend ??

    Hopefully they come down in prize a bit before the off, but i doubt it……

    Cheers

  140. Joe Sixpack on February 8th, 2009 10:15 am

    To level stakes of course !

  141. Phil on February 8th, 2009 2:53 pm

    Hi
    I’ve been tracking the results and comments for a while. I think I will take the plunge but just wanted to ask a couple of questions.
    Re. Response no.57 @ George. Do you use a bot for your loss recovery, or do you do it manually? I use GHB which has a loss recovery system. Presumably when you’re on loss recovery situation, your %age bank liability is above 14%?

    Also, when you say you use other exchanges to get matched, do you have an upper limit of what you will lay at, or is purely the amount that is the problem?

    Would anyone know if the NH selections will always arrive in the e-mail, or will a separate system be introduced?

    And finally, does anyone trade the selections? So many times i’ve had occasions where I could have greened up, only to hesitate & lose!

    Thanks for your help

    Best regards

    P

  142. Joe Sixpack on February 8th, 2009 8:12 pm

    Would it be possible to tighten up the Reviews a bit ?? SCrolling up and down 10 Pages gets a bit uncomfortable.

    Cheers

  143. chris on February 8th, 2009 9:07 pm

    The site would be much clearer if the whole width of the page was used.

  144. Ben on February 8th, 2009 11:46 pm

    While I acknowledge the high strike rate of the system, I can’t see how I am going to make a profit when we can’t lay anything at below $10?!

    The only way I can see it working is to use a loss recovery staking plan, but with such high odds being layed this could end in disaster.

  145. Daniel on February 9th, 2009 12:28 am

    Winnerstolosers is great. Odds is a bit off but
    considering it win at 90% is a deal I can live
    with. And what I dislike most is that Racingpost
    changes odds grr.. Not Winnerstolosers fault but
    it makes selection process sometimes hard.

  146. JohnMalko on February 9th, 2009 3:22 pm

    If you strictly stick to the W2L recommended bank and bank management rules, high odds shouldn’t be an issue.

    I bet using a 10% liability of my betting bank.
    So whatever the odss are, i’ll lose the same amount of money. From a ROI perspective, I prefer betting on low odds because my stake are higher (and so is my profit)but from a risk perspective I prefer high odds…

    So far, I’m not disappointed with the W2L system.
    We had a “big” winner yesterday but that’s the game. ;-)

  147. jorgefergo on February 10th, 2009 10:10 pm

    thats wrong, today 10 of february there was a bet and and it lost which for us is another winner.

  148. chris on February 10th, 2009 10:13 pm

    Jorgefergo,

    What was the selection?

  149. Richard on February 10th, 2009 10:41 pm

    Glad I found this site. Have had a good look at W2L and want to take the plunge. Can get a bank of around £500. Would this be enough to make a good return, including the cost of the email service, which I will use at least until I can sort out the sytem, as I see lots of people are having some difficulty in getting the correct selections.

  150. Ben on February 10th, 2009 11:34 pm

    I agree with Jorgefergo.
    Lingfield Race 5 1. Princessflame. After disregarding the horses jumps race form, it actaully becomes a bet according to the rules.
    I emailed Dave and he said that I failed under rule 7 but I don’t agree, I’m awaiting his reply!

  151. chris on February 11th, 2009 12:05 am

    It failed on rule 7.

    Last two runs were too close together.

  152. jorgefergo on February 11th, 2009 1:15 am

    this website are also testing this system and they had a selection.http://layhorsesuk.blogspot.com/

  153. chris on February 11th, 2009 11:08 am

    Then, they’re also wrong.

    Surely, the guy who wrote/runs the system knows if it’s a qualifier or not.

    I’ll email you the reason/proof and once you’re happy with that, could you please come back on here and say you’re happy with it?

  154. JohnMalko on February 11th, 2009 11:53 am

    @Richard

    IMO, £500 is a bit short to start but if you keep patience & discipline, you’ll slowly build your betting bank. So, don’t expect big returns over the first two or three monthes. Time is your best friend.

  155. Tony Vandenbogaerde on February 11th, 2009 5:52 pm

    ouch, another winner (loser for us) today … that’s 3 in the last 9 … still nice in profit though, good systems also have their losing runs, so we dust ourselves off and continue !

  156. JohnMalko on February 11th, 2009 7:07 pm

    Ouch… A losing bet today !

  157. Bradley Pitman on February 11th, 2009 10:52 pm

    I must be the unluckiest person alive I see all these profits and started on Monday 31st results so far 5 lays 2 of these won 9.2 and 6.98 so -11.18 pts loss after 3 days. Still not convinced of being able to lay anything near industry SP as claimed by author. No profits should be allowed advertised showing industry SP. Lets hope it improves!

  158. Joe Sixpack on February 12th, 2009 4:18 am

    I still like that System, but i am strongly in doubt that there will be any worthwile Profit to level stakes long term, simply because of the fact that the Real Exchange Odds availiable to lay at are too high.

    I guess one would be better of with some sort of loss recovery staking, but my bank for eyample is way to small to support such an approach.

    I guess i put this one here on ice and grow my bank a bit with my Small Odds methods before i get back to this one…..

  159. Ben Johnson on February 12th, 2009 11:16 am

    I agree.
    The problem with loss recovery with this system is that you only need a couple of losses and your bank is gone!
    The odds are just too high.
    Would be better to use the system and back the horses we are meant to be laying!

  160. Gary on February 12th, 2009 11:38 am

    Hi,

    Results for this system have been run and and back tested. the results from 1989 to 2002 show a loss, its only from this date that they show a profit.

    What is a big problem is everyone has jumped on board, pushing up odds and reducing liquidity.

    If you are using a % stake then eventually you will get stung. If you lay @ higher odds you will need more winners to cover losses.

    These types of systems need to be tested at least over a 12 month period. The problem is you can go months without a loser and then when you get one @ 20 it can wipe out profits.

  161. Dave on February 12th, 2009 1:14 pm

    From what I can see, in order to use a loss recovery plan similar to the one mentioned earlier (where you divide your loss by 5 and stake it over the next 5 races), you would need to be staking to around 3% liability of your bank in order to cater for having 3 losers before you hit a run of 5 winners to recover. This is using odds of 10 as an average. I still havent made my mind up about this…

  162. JohnMalko on February 12th, 2009 3:27 pm

    General Tufto won again today… :-(

  163. Bradley Pitman on February 12th, 2009 3:31 pm

    Another lay bet bolts in again GENERAL TUFTO 5/1 6.00 BSP 6.61 now 6 lays 3 have won this is an average lay price at BSP is running at over 16% this surely has no long term potential as strike rate would have to be massive for it to succeed NOW -16.79 pts loss at BSP since Monday. I have a feeling the system was reaseached using http://www.rsbweb.com (Racing System Builder) when I saw the parameters of qualifiers it was the same as RSB parameters in their software. Anyone with rsb software can check this going back to 1986!

  164. TonyT on February 12th, 2009 4:35 pm

    OUCH…! Started in beginning of Jan now profits all gone, back to square one after 6 weeks. :(

  165. jorgefergo on February 13th, 2009 3:38 am

    i have got 2 selections for today friday, is that ok?

  166. kokotoni84 on February 13th, 2009 6:31 am

    These type of systems are all the same:win some then a gentle losing streak of win,loss,loss win,win,loss,loss etc sees you hit rock bottom.I’m sorry for the folks who rushed out to buy this one.A system which maybe hung on with its fingertips in terms of profits in bygone seasons will now be scuttled due to the high volume of users – hence the ridiculous lay prices you see.There’s no way to get around this with cute bank strategies: level staking only takes what happened over the past couple of days to bomb you well into the red,% staking to liability needs a few % of bank to cope with this type of run,not the ridiculous 14% recommended,plus % liability won’t work now because of the high lay prices.you’d need exceptionally good winning streaks to get you in a good position,much more than statistics really prove long term. Perhaps the sellers knew the writing was on the wall with it and decided the best bet was to marker it? Same old story,really.

  167. chris on February 13th, 2009 9:33 am

    I’ve not got the official email yet, but I agree that there are 2 today: both at Wolverhampton.

  168. Kevin on February 13th, 2009 9:34 am

    started with a bankroll of 2000euros,
    and now -620,48 with General Tufto and Kipchak winning the last couple of days..

    Djeezzzzzzzz :(

    hey,

    i`m an IT Consultant and my contract just ended..
    so i am looking to find a new income stream..

    Is it possible for you to help me?
    I see you have knowledge of several systems?
    Any system you can recommend?

  169. rjay on February 13th, 2009 11:01 am

    Hi Kevin,

    Check out the Legacy&Saver. It is an old one and nothing fancy but consistant system.

  170. rjay on February 13th, 2009 12:48 pm

    I also found 2 selections at Wov today.

  171. Joe Sixpack on February 13th, 2009 3:08 pm

    @Kevin

    1. Buy the False Favorits Guide
    2. Study it hard
    3. Lay only 1 or 2 horses a day and then turn the PC Off (very Important !)
    4. Most Important: Lay only within the right Prize Range (You will figure out soon what right means if you put the effort in :) ).

    Following those steps it should be possible to turn over a Profit.

    Finaly (and most important of all !)
    Dont ask me for precise methods to make money i will not share them because i am some selfish greedy Fucker :) (and because it took me nearly 2 years to figure them out for myself.)

    Best of luck you will need it ;)

  172. Bradley Pitman on February 13th, 2009 4:25 pm

    Hello Kevin the only two systems I have found stood the test of time and have long term potential are THE FORMAT RACING METHOD by Martin Hill http://www.formatracing.co.uk and the very old GOODLIFE SYSTEM which still seems to work even though it dates back to 1978!

    You won’t need luck if you follow these
    all the best

  173. Ivan on February 16th, 2009 5:38 pm

    Have any other punters any thoughts on the Format Racing Method.

    Ivan

  174. admin on February 16th, 2009 6:52 pm

    Please keep the postings in this subject about winners2losers!

    If you want to discouss format racing then do it in “what should we test now” :-)

  175. johnmalko on February 18th, 2009 9:29 pm

    A clear winning bet today. Although we had to deal with some looses, I’m still very confident with the W2L this system.

    By the way, there was also a nice losing NH selection (a winning one for us) today. This new NH system sounds really impressive !

  176. Tony Vandenbogaerde on February 19th, 2009 11:12 am

    It is not a bad system, but the selectioncriteria are too mechanical, I mean, xx days here and xx days this and Racingpost that, I prefer to dive into form and stats for my lays (advice : buy False Favourites)

  177. johnmalko on February 21st, 2009 12:45 pm

    Hi Tony,

    I understand your point about the mechanical side of W2L. But this is the reason why it’s called “a system”. There’re strict rules to follow day after day if you want to realize the claimed profit. If you don’t feel comfortable with this, betting systems are definitively not for you.

    But I agree with you : peeling form card, stats will make you more confident with your bet and will make you think that everything is under control (even if, in fact, it’s not at all !).
    And you’re also right about the excellent False Favourites book.

  178. jorgefergo on February 21st, 2009 8:12 pm

    hello. bright ssparky was not a selection, there are 2 rules of the system wich doesnt fit with this selection,rules 5 and 7,please find it out.

  179. chris on February 22nd, 2009 2:43 am

    Bright Sparky was a valid selection. And I’ll explain why.
    Yesterday’s race was a flat race.
    Its previous outing was another flat race.
    Its last runs before 3rd Feb were on:
    16th Jan
    26th December
    25th November etc etc
    BUT THESE WERE ALL OVER HURDLES / FENCES
    YOU HAVE TO GO BACK TO ITS LAST FLAT RACE
    Which was 24th Jan 2008, hence it’s a qualifier.

    Hope that clears that up.

  180. jorgefergo on February 22nd, 2009 3:56 pm

    you are right chris, thanks.

  181. jorgefergo on February 23rd, 2009 10:15 pm

    todasys selection won, so this system is getting worse.

  182. mick on February 24th, 2009 1:43 am

    my advice. DO NOT BUY THIS.

    its all well and good this system has made some money over the past couple of years but if you ask me it was just luck pure luck plain and simple. There is no reason that it wont nose dive again this year and lose a lot of money like it did in previous years before the winning run. Its just hyped up rubbish. It also cant possibly be profitable with no limit on how many people buy it so the odds are being pushed up all the time so in order to be profitable you need less and less losing bets over the season.

    False faves is an excellent guide and although it takes a bit of effort to pick your lays each day you have much more chance of making a regular profit year after year.

    Mick

  183. Mikey on February 24th, 2009 3:22 am

    I mentioned earlier in this thread that i had a feeling some of the filters with this system were similar to what i use as a a few of the selections were the same but as the test went on then not so many were similar. As for today I would not have touched Pelachy with a barge pole as I thought it had a huge chance of winning going on last run, distance it won by and weight for the current race, don’t get me wrong i didn’t back it as i don’t back, times like this i kick myself haha!

  184. Kevin on February 24th, 2009 9:26 am

    i backed PARLACHY yesterday as it was the most backed horse and most tipped horse on racingpost.com !

    Thank God for my common sense haha!

    But indeed, ever since i started using this system,
    i have lost 500euros on a starting bankroll of 2000euros..

    so don`t buy it.. i dunno whats wrong with that system :)

  185. Bob on February 24th, 2009 10:31 am

    Am finding it difficult to agree with the negative comments above.

    Have done extensive research on this system and it seems indisputable to me that it does make a long term profit.

    Of course there are going to be winners (losers for the user) and Perlachy is a good example, but if you look at the history over the last four or five years losers are remarkably few, as are losing runs, and although a loser does make a hole in the bank there has always been a recovery previously.

    Isn’t it a matter of patience and prudence?

    And, no, I’m *not* an affiliate or associated in any way with the owners.

    :)

    Bob

  186. Joe Sixpack on February 24th, 2009 10:48 pm

    And if you take the time to look even more closely than you will soon realize that the quoted prizes on their Page are just way out of line with the reality on the exchanges,…. and the exchanges are the only place where you can lay at !!

  187. brummie on February 25th, 2009 3:45 am

    THIS IS A BLATANT BACK FITTED SYSTEM,AS MOST SYSTEMS ARE,WHY ARE PEOPLE TALKING ABOUT PROFITS IT MADE B4 IT WAS PUBLISHED,I COULD INVENT LOADS OF SYSTEMS THAT SHOWED A PROFIT BY BACK FITTING THE RESULTS,LIKE SOMEONE SAID FALSE FAVS IS THE ONLY THING WORTH BUYING AND ALWAYS WILL BE,I WISH I COULD CONVINCE PEOPLE NOT 2 BUY SHIT SYSTEMS,I HAVE NO REAL INTEREST IN ANY SYSTEMS,I JUST WANT TO STOP PEOPLE BEING CONNED BY THESE GREEDY BAS***DS,YOU HAVE ABOUT THE SAME CHANCE OF WINNING THE LOTTERY THAN FINDING A WINNING SYSTEM,BUT I FEAR MY E-MAIL WILL BE IN VAIN,BECAUSE NO ONE WANTS TO HEAR THE TRUTH

  188. Bob on February 25th, 2009 7:51 am

    Guess you mean prices. Yes, I’ve been into that, but as I understand it there’s still a good long-term profit to be made at, say, Betfair SP.

  189. Joe Sixpack on February 25th, 2009 3:34 pm

    Ok i try to be more precise:

    The average price of a Selection is pending around 10.00 at the Moment.

    –> This means (not taking into Account Commission !) that you need 9 Winners for Breakeven and another one for Profits. With a 90 % Strike rate on average Prizes of 10.00 you wont get that 10th Winner…. the only Profit you can hope for using this System is the Margin thats left when you manage to lay below 10. Of course then you have to deduct Commission and when you “start to win Shitloads” even this 20% charge thingy.

    Ergo –> it doesnt cut the mustard long term.

    Cheers

  190. Bob on February 25th, 2009 5:21 pm

    Don’t think you’re right there Brummie :)

    Have been following this system for some months now and the provable pattern that I’ve seen matches previous published results.

    In addition, they’re offering £1,000 to anyone who can show previous results to be wrong when checked against the system and are a long-established organisation.

    All seems kosher to me.

  191. Bradley Pitman on February 25th, 2009 5:35 pm

    Hi all as I said earlier this was researched from RSB RACING SYSTEM BUILDER. You can tell by the day parameters of the system. Quoting at industry SP is useless (like the Daily Donkey) it seems we have all done our money on this and the vendor is having a good laugh at our expense. Luckily I stopped early on this otherwise the losses would be massive betfair SP is currently running at over 24% of ISP on bets since I got this nonsense. Ask any bookie to give you 24% extra on your bets and he would laugh at you. BRIGHT SPARKY was 12/1 sp 13.00 and was 20.30 on betfair SP if one of these wins you would be cleaned completely a massive 56% disadvantage the maths for this system dont add up for anyone trying to lay on the exchanges. Dump it guys before you get cleaned.
    Bradley

  192. jorgefergo on February 25th, 2009 9:14 pm

    ALL YOU NEED was a selection, wasn´it?

  193. brummie on February 26th, 2009 4:39 am

    NO BOB,I AM NOT WRONG,OF COURSE YOU WONT FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THE PREVIOUS RESULTS,LIKE BRADLEY SAID THEY HAVE BEEN BACKFITTED USING RSB.KEEP READING RULE 7,I AM SURE YOU WILL SOON COME TO YOU SENSES AND BIN THE SYSTEM,NO OFFENCE MATE.

  194. Ben Johnson on February 26th, 2009 6:19 am

    I agree totally with Joe and Bradley, there is no way this system is going to produce profits.
    The liability on each lay is simply too high.
    Wit on average one out of 10 losing the loser only needs to be over $10 and there is no chance of a profit being made. It is simply not mathematically possible.
    Bob you need to stop kidding yourself and get out now, either that or you are only saying those things to encourage sales!

  195. Bob on February 26th, 2009 7:37 am

    Am reading and respecting what you say, but I must say I’m still not convinced this is a non-starter. There are too many good reviews around and if you look at the results and profits on the site, it quotes at 20% above SP. I’ve no reason to believe this is anything other than accurate.

  196. mick on February 26th, 2009 7:49 am

    @ Bob

    if you did your research that you say you did then you would know that before 2002 this ’system’ lost money. the fact that its gotten the 90 or so % strike rate has just been luck. BUT as was said the REAL price you can lay these horses at on Betfair makes it unprofitable. You are wrong its mechanical and working out profits involves maths so its not about an opinion.

    the 90% strike rate that it luckily has for the past couple of years is USELESS at the prices you have to lay at. the £1000 offered for previous results being false is not about the price the horse can be layed at. the results of the races are correct the prices arent.

    the only way this could possibly work is if you had a huge bank and use o kamikaze style loss recovery plan but in reality thats no good either as you wouldnt get matched on betfair- not enough liquidity.

    As said earlier too many people follow this system and has made it useless. but Dave and the rest of the team at W2L are laughing all the way to the bank.

    Also Dave cant be stupid if he had a winning formula that involves laying then he would not sell it as would destroy liquidity especially when such huge profits are claimed.
    Not having a go at you mate just trying to help as a lot of people are going to get burned on this especially when the LUCKY 90% strike rate takes a nose dive coupled with the ridiculous prices on Betfair

    Mick

  197. jorgefergo on February 26th, 2009 10:55 pm

    this system is rabbish, todays selection just won, it was gallantry at wolverhampton 20:50 and betfair star price was around 25 odds.with this high odds we can no do anything,give uo with this system.

  198. Marcus on February 26th, 2009 11:37 pm

    Urk this system is a nightmare

  199. Marc on February 27th, 2009 1:06 am

    The problem with this system and any other system that gets “Popular” is that the BFSP that you get is much higher than you should be getting.

    Gallantry was a good example today…..The Racing Post tissue price is 6.0 and it goes off with a BFSP above 20.

    There was £15K waiting at the off requesting to be layed at SP. Everyone can see that and I am sure that this can only artificially push the price up during the day.

    In fact, at mid-night the night before there is usually 2 or 3K waiting to lay @ SP. It is very easy to find the selection at mid-night the night before, you just find the horses that have 2K+ waiting to be layed at SP.

    Mind you, tomorrow’s selection (Friday) has only £142 waiting to be layed at the moment….So maybe people have finally “Given Up” on the system……?

  200. chris on February 27th, 2009 1:22 am

    I record the results at BSP, because that is the most quantifiable way or recording it.
    At lunchtime today, Gallantry was available to lay at 7.6.
    I laid it at 7.6 this morning: didn’t the way it was going and backed it at 25.0 and greened out.

  201. Thomas on February 27th, 2009 6:30 pm

    Hi guys I’d have to say W2L is pretty much up there with all the rest of those other systems I’ve used simply fustrating.I’ve used it a month now and my bank has taken a serious blow now that my liability is high and the bank is low (rachet system)What do you all think should I pack it in or see it out?Is there anyone out there that has used the system last year and achieved these ”wonderful” results?
    Please advise!!

  202. Thomas on February 27th, 2009 6:39 pm

    Hi me again if you look at well disguised at the moment 6-1 with the bookies and 9 on betfair thats crap.This is getting annoying.I’ve studied the prices everday for the last month and I only get the price the odd time and of course down money on top of it
    AAAAAAHHH!!

  203. Fernie on February 28th, 2009 1:53 am

    @ craig

    Pleased for you mate, but that’s obviously not part of the system and the fact is, it’s having a ‘mare of late!!

  204. Fernie on February 28th, 2009 1:53 am

    Sorry, I meant “Chris”

  205. Peter on March 1st, 2009 2:24 am

    I have been following this discussion and I wanted to point out that this system is a back-tested one. Their website did not even start up until July of 2008.

    The above test results clearly show that the future is not matching the past :)

    These systems that are fine tuned to past results never work.

  206. chris on March 1st, 2009 4:08 am

    Peter,
    Do you mean back-tested or back-fitted?

    Back-testing is fine and necessary. Back-fitting isn’t!

  207. Thomas on March 1st, 2009 6:53 pm

    Yet another winner today it’s the first of march and we’re under pressure for the week again.two months down and still at a loss would I be right in saying this is a s**t system that is back fitted for sales purposes??

  208. mike on March 7th, 2009 11:39 pm

    thought this was about W2L, previous posts are nothing to do with this section. I have been betting W2L since Jan. now well down, very high BSP in the last few weeks shows too many are on board, looks like we need a minimum 90%+ strike rate to profit. All systems have losing runs, will persevre with crossed fingers

  209. chris on March 8th, 2009 12:48 am

    You’re quite right, Mike.
    I’ve just removed the irrelevant stuff.

  210. Joe Sixpack on March 8th, 2009 2:59 am

    Would it be possible to introduce some sort of Chit chat Topic on this blog ???

  211. Kevin on March 9th, 2009 9:12 am

    i second that emotion,
    i subscribed to W2L in January,
    system has been well down throughoutthe months..
    I stopped using it now..

  212. Kevin on March 9th, 2009 9:51 am

    @Joe, good idea!
    Or maybe a forum?

    How is your system getting along by the way? ;-)

  213. mick on March 9th, 2009 6:45 pm

    Good idea Joe.

    I had a good tip today.

    Another Display Won at 10/1 in Taunton 3.20 I got him at 12’s also did him in a double with RaysRock at 5/2

    Yesterday only had one decent priced tip/winner
    Cornerback 5/1 Kelso 3.25 although also had 3 other winners but they were low odds
    Bold Ransom 5/2
    Glimmer of light 7/2
    Phoudamor 1/2

    As there was moaning from other people about comments not relating to W2L I didnt post up anything. So badly need somewhere to be able to post without hurting peoples feelings who are losing money following a dead end system.

    Also is there any point in me posting tips as the message doesnt appear for ours on the site after its moderated. It doesnt bother me Im winning my money just trying to help others.

    Mick

  214. chris on March 9th, 2009 11:02 pm

    Mick,
    I’m usually around all day on weekdays to approve your messages, I had an unavoidable meeting all day today.
    What time would you be posting your tips up?

  215. mick on March 9th, 2009 11:42 pm

    Hi Chris,

    As soon as I get them and get my bets on ill post them. I dont get tips every day but usually get a few a week. The tips I get are excellent, they are always Irish horses as its Irish trainers and owners that I know. They dont always win but I make a really good income from them, so good an income that I’m barred from most of my local bookies! ;)

    Also prices are usually decent enough but if I get a tip for a 1/2 horse back it anyway a win is a win. I didnt get a tip for phoudamor today but just knew it would win opposition was nowhere near

    Now WHERE will I post the tips????? Dont want any more crying about wrong topic!?

    Mick

  216. chris on March 10th, 2009 3:53 am

    Put them on here for now and then we’ll find a home for them later!

  217. mick on March 10th, 2009 1:20 pm

    ok no backing tips as of yet, just waiting on a couple of calls back. personally I will be having a double on cousin vinny and binocular.

    Laying:

    Southwell 2.30
    Isabellas Fancy

    Sedge 3.35
    Burnswood

    Chelt 4.00
    Garde Champetre

    Mick

  218. chris on March 10th, 2009 2:21 pm

    Mick, check your email.

  219. mick on March 10th, 2009 3:03 pm

    ok only a couple of tips.

    sedge 2.20 back Easby mandarin

    Chelt 4.00

    drombeag AND
    Heads on the ground personally backing both to place on BF Drombeag probably the stronger of the 2 but Heads on the ground going to give a good run. DO NOT BACK EITHER TO WIN OR EACH WAY AS NOT A STRONG ENOUGH TIP. just back to place on BF. both are good prices

    Southwell 5.05

    Back Never Lose to win
    Back Aahaygirl to place or small bet to win also

    Sorry the tips arent the strongest ive had but they’re well worth a bet

    Mick

  220. TonyT on March 11th, 2009 2:12 pm

    Hey Mick

    Appreciate you sharing your info with us, many would charge for this. Do you use some form of staking or level stakes on your info?

  221. mick on March 11th, 2009 4:07 pm

    hi Tony,

    No problem mate I dont mind sharing once I get my own bets on. Yes I do change stakes depending on the ’strength’ of the tip. For example I put 20 points on never lose yesterday and layed isabellas fancy for whatever the exchange would take price was high but definitely had no chance and proved right not even placing. I can suggest the stakes on each horse if people prefer??

    only one tip for today Cheltenham is like a mine field.

    5.15 chelt

    Shinrock Paddy 14/1

    personally putting 2 points each way

  222. Bob on March 12th, 2009 8:04 am

    Very generous Mick. So are you going to keep posting here for the moment until we’re told differently?

  223. mick on March 12th, 2009 11:55 am

    hi Bob,

    yes whenever I get tips ill post them. unlucky yesterday he went well at the start, its very hard at cheltenham. looks like no tips today

    Mick

  224. Bob on March 18th, 2009 10:20 pm

    It’s gone very quiet here…

  225. Mikey on March 19th, 2009 1:01 pm

    it has gone quite bob

  226. kokotoni84 on March 20th, 2009 2:55 am

    Bob,perhaps it’s because Winnerstolosers has hit another big dip? I wouldn’t know as I don’t use it.I have it,though. (I didn’t pay a brass farthing for it – indeed I wouldn’t pay anything for these system thingies). I must have dozens of these crap systems that,upon calculation, would have cost me thousands.If you look hard enough online,you’ll get them for free.Good for a laugh though,looking through them and spotting all the basic spelling and gramatical errors.Never trust or believe anyone who can’t even spell correctly yet they have the sheer gall to knock out an ebook hoping to trap gullible,naive punters.

  227. Thomas on March 20th, 2009 9:05 pm

    @bob,Thats cause people have given up on winners to loosers,just too many winners and inpossible to get anything near sp.Its all fine to say there were four today so far but the prices???

  228. Thomas on March 20th, 2009 10:07 pm

    yes WTL is offially a joke ERGO 21 on betfair at one point

  229. Everlong on March 21st, 2009 1:45 pm

    21-03-09

    Newbury
    1420 Strawberry
    1450 Aimigayle
    1530 Argentina Luna
    1640 Overtly Blue

    Haydock
    1410 Kalmo Bay
    Ngong Hills
    1440 Ormus
    Elaala
    1515 Brave Rebellion
    1545 Rightway Star
    Prince Taime
    Flake

    Bangor
    1555 Money Order
    Never So Blue
    Storm of Applause
    1630 Harmony Brigg

    Stratford
    1525 Milton Des Bieffes
    1645 Prophete de Guye

    Lingfield
    1335 New Star
    1615 Formation
    War of the Roses
    Bassinet
    1650 Abbondaza*
    Capricorn Run
    Al Muheer
    Benllech
    Red Somerset
    Thebes*

  230. brummie on March 22nd, 2009 8:55 pm

    KOKOTONI84,WOW SOMEONE TALKING SENSE ON A RACING FORUM,AFTER ALL THIS TIME,I DONT BELIEVE IT,I STOPPED BUYING SYSTEMS A WHILE AGO,IF YOU GET THEM FOR FREE,I THINK YOU ARE STILL BEING RIPPED OFF,THEY REALLY ARE THAT BAD,THEY ARE ALL AIMED AT PEOPLE THAT DONT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT HORSE RACING AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE ARE MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIKE THAT,ALL LOOKING FOR AN EASY BUCK,WHEN THE ONLY PEOPLE GETTING RICH ARE THE SYSTEM SELLERS,BRINGING OUT MORE CRAP EVERY WEEK,IT MAKES ME FEEL SAD,BUT I DONT THINK ANYONE IS GOING TO LISTEN TO ME,BECAUSE I AM A NOBODY WITH NOTHING,PLEASE FORGIVE MY SPELLING,BEST WISHES BRUMMIE

  231. Everlong on March 23rd, 2009 11:46 am

    Well said Brummie, I personally think 95% of people are only interested and have the idea that they will be able to just put the bets on for the day and let the money roll in but in reality you have to work at it like any other job.

    23-03-2009
    Kempton
    1625 Smuglin
    1700 Jacarado

    Plumpton
    1720 Touch of Fate

    Wolverhampton
    1600 Rocket Rob
    Arachnophobia
    Song of Praise
    1710 Kiyari

  232. Bob on March 24th, 2009 9:22 am

    Points taken about W2L, but still not convinced there’s not something in it. I’m confident the advertised past results – for several years – are back-checked and not back-fitted, but there obviously is a problem with prices and the 20-1 at the end of last month really put the cat among the pigeons, so at the moment I’m using it only when I can get 8s or less at BF and haven’t had a loser (winner) yet. Thing is, I’m not sure yet how much this will reduce selections which are already quite infrequent; although this might change with the Flat.

  233. TonyT on March 24th, 2009 2:19 pm

    Anyone notice something when all those system sellers advertise they always say make 30k or 50k a year or whatever and publish results to say how that have been achieved. Then when you get on, it never ever produces that kind of profits! I thought W2L was different and had a great start then went all the way downhill. Its just not W2L in particular, but every one that I have come across. When you look at sportsworldpublishing, all of the systems being sold on there seems to produce 20k plus profits per year. Who in the real world has achieved that using the systems?

  234. Everlong on March 24th, 2009 3:58 pm

    @Tony T, Hi how are you? all good i hope. You are spot on with what you say, if all the systems for sale/advertised actually pulled in the profits they advertise year after year, don’t you think it would spread like wild fire and a majority of the country/world would be doing it instead of working for a living. I’m not saying they don’t pull in profits but i mean consistantly, year after year.

    I have never bought a system because frankly in my own opinion systems are only short lived, may last 3 months, 6 months but they will always come a cropper at some point, but then they most probably will start producing profits again, but for most it is too late. These are Horses that you lay, animals with thier own minds (no running to systems) and a damn site bigger than the little man riding it, if it don’t want to do something it ain’t going to, does horse know he’s a 1-5 or a 5-1 shot when he goes in the stalls?

    I have lived off my laying for 2 years now and it took me three years of profits until i could justify doing it. Basically this year i am living off 2007 profits, next year 2008’s and a year in hand so to say, you must treat it like a business not just an easy way to make a buck.

    anyway thats my banter :)

    Southwell
    1410 Art Virginia
    1440 Brave Jo
    1640 Prophete de Guye
    Cortesia
    1710 Nothingbutthetruth

    Southwell
    1520 Moon Crystal
    Smokey Rye
    Melt
    1650 Bavarica

  235. Everlong on March 25th, 2009 3:24 pm

    Taunton
    1630 Marigolds Way
    1700 Fourpointone
    Towcester
    1410 Tara Taylor
    Speedy Directa
    1440 Blunham Hill
    1510 Pagano
    Lingfield
    1450 Smoking Beau
    Teen Ager
    The Magic Blanket
    1620 Fine Ruler
    Herbert Cresent
    1415 Cumana Bay
    Imperial Skylight
    A Perfect Class
    Sarasota Sunshine
    1720 Smirfys Systems
    Lord Deevert
    Pharaohs Justice
    Shaded Edge
    Comrade Cotton
    1750 Brer Rabbit
    Hold The Bucks
    True Brittania
    Wolverhampton
    1920 Gazboolou
    Highly Regal
    2020 Aphrodisia
    2120 Stanley Goodspeed
    Resplendant Alpha
    Peter Island
    Brandywell Boy

  236. admin on March 25th, 2009 4:01 pm

    Hi Everlong

    If you want to post your selections then let me know and I will make a new thread for you where you can enter them and also update results at Betfair SP. Please don’t use this topic for it :-)

  237. Everlong on March 25th, 2009 9:14 pm

    It’s up to you son but as i said i don’t lay everything i list over a certain sp (& that sp is in double figures) and the loss recovery ain’t no where near trying to recover your whole loss. I’d love to update and do a running total for viewing but i even do or keep results/spread sheets myself as there’s no need to, thats what your account statements on your exchange account is for ;) also would get accused of cooking the books as i know how i would think if i was watching ;) plus, most importantly, as soon as that last nag has run i’m sh1t, shower & shave and out the door :)

  238. Everlong on March 29th, 2009 10:29 am

    Hey hey hey people! So what the latest/verdict on this “system” then? I see the website has not been updated since 27th Feb? I clicked on the link and was greeted with “Reading This Web Page Could Change Your Life”,…. Has it done so for anybody?

  239. admin on March 29th, 2009 3:23 pm

    The guy doing the test is on a small vacation. The verdict will be made when he is back :-)

  240. brummie on March 29th, 2009 9:05 pm

    EVERLONG,IT MAY HAVE CHANGE THE LIFE FOR THE PEOPLE WHO SELL THE SYSTEM,TALKING OF SCAMSTERS,DID ANYONE FALL FOR MATT BIANCO THIS WEEK,BEST WISHES BRUMMIE

  241. Everlong on March 29th, 2009 9:48 pm

    @ Admin,… Small Vacation?! Geez is it that good you can get time to go on a vacation :D

  242. chris on March 30th, 2009 2:22 am

    I’ve been away for 2 weeks, the last update was done on 16th March.

    I’ll bring you all up to speed on my return tomorrow.

  243. Mick on April 15th, 2009 3:40 pm

    tips for today.

    5.55 newmarket Green Beret. 2 point win

    6.50 Kempton Scartozz 5 point win great price get on while its so high. have been assured of this one.

    Sorry no tips for a while been on holidays and took a break. Definitely go with these today have really good info on them.

    Mick

  244. mike on May 20th, 2009 11:56 pm

    anyone in this forum still following W2L ? I am still persevering, small profit,two steps forward one and half steps back.Would welcome comments.

    Mike

  245. Joe Sixpack on June 9th, 2009 6:28 pm

    Well according to their own Results page at just half way realistic Lay Prizes and to level stakes they are standing at a heavy loss,… and that pretty much sums it up for me…. Cheers

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