176 Responses to “The Life System Review”

1. ib on October 23rd, 2008 11:01 pm

   hi i am confuse , is it the author off the system that is going too test it ????????????

2. llama on October 23rd, 2008 11:56 pm

   You say that you used level stakes for the staking plan, I don’t understand how you only won 0.57 points on the first selection on the 23rd October. The fact that you then lost 3 points in races 2 and 3 suggests that the level stake is 3 points. Then on a 13.0 selection, which won, you only were +9.50 points.

   Is there something “Subtle” about the staking plan……?

3. admin on October 24th, 2008 7:16 am

   Ib=> No It’s Jon who has tested a lot other systems on here.

   Ilama=> You don’t just back one horse per race that is why you lose more than 1 point when you lose.

4. Jon on October 24th, 2008 1:08 pm

   Admin is correct on both points! But, if I show the losers and their prices etc, you could probably work out the system in 5 minutes.

   So, I will show winners and report losers by showing -points.

   Yesterday could have been even better if I had ignored the system Stop at First Blood rule. Later that day I picked up winners at betfair prices of 21 and 18.

   I suppose there has to be an element of trust that my reporting is accurate. Admin can back check the results at the end of the test to give you peace of mind.

   Jon

5. llama on October 27th, 2008 12:10 pm

   Hi Admin,

   I have started to follow this system as well now……

   Just to check to see if I am doing this correctly, I just wanted to query the results from Day 3 (Sunday).

   You say that the system was +6.46 points from race 2.

   This means that the winning horse returned at 9.46 in that race. Did you really get on that horse at that price……?

   Surely you are just using BetFair S.P. for your analysis……?

   Using BetFair S.P. for that race then your profit on that race would have been +4.6 points (Less Commission)……?

6. admin on October 27th, 2008 12:19 pm

   Hi Ilama,

   It’s Jon who is performing this test. I’m sure he will be able to answer you

   Good to see that some are following the results

7. Jon on October 27th, 2008 3:53 pm

   Llama

   Do not confuse race numbers with bet numbers. They are not necessarily the same! There are a couple of rules that can disqualify a race, so if you are simply following all race cards, you won´t always be right.

   The horse you refer to was matched at 9.8 on Betfair, leaving 6.46 points after the other two losers and betfair commission at 5%

   Jon

8. llama on October 27th, 2008 11:11 pm

   Hi John,

   Thanks for getting back so quickly.

   I am assuming that you are talking about the 1 pm race……?

   To get a price of 9.8 you must have backed at almost the perfect time. The BetFair SP which I am using was a mere 7.6.

   Surely to be fair, the BetFair SP should be used in the analysis, otherwise one’s timing skills come into play and that can be rather subjective.

   My results for today’s results are also out. I am again using BetFair SP and again the prices that are reported on their website seem to be higher than my BetFair SP.

   Please drop me an email if you want to duscuss.

   Thanks.

9. Stuart chapman on October 28th, 2008 9:56 am

   can i just say that i think when the life system produces a big winner like it will say 15/1 - 50/1 in the first few races, like it has done in the past,, squabbling over the odd point here and there just doesn’t matter LOL.

   Truly the greatest system i have ever seen..

   everyone will see. i have been doing since the 6th of October and i can vouch my results are not far off the website and at many times my odds have been better than the website quoted..

   Stuart

10. Jon on October 28th, 2008 10:56 am

    Llama

    I don´t see why I should use Betfair SP to test the system. Surely, the whole point of Betfair is that the timing of bets can make a big difference, sometimes to the bettor´s advantage, sometimes not.

    For example, yesterday I got better prices than the system author! But so what, it doesn´t mean there is anything wrong with the system. Today, maybe he will do better than me!

    Stuart sums it up perfectly for me. I, too have used the system personally since 12 October and think it is a great system. Since then, I have collected on winners at 27/1, 33/1, 17/1 and several at around 10/1.

    Normally I would never have considered backing some or perhaps any of those selections until The Life System came along.

11. admin on October 28th, 2008 11:06 am

    The use of Betfair SP could be a good thing since it would do that everyone will be able to get excactly the same results. I think you should consider it

    Otherwise I think it may be fair to ask for screenshots that the bets was actually placed at the odds quoted so that everyone can see that it actually was possible.

12. Jon on October 28th, 2008 11:14 am

    One other very important point about The Life System is DISCIPLINE. I cannot stress this enough. The nature of the system means you will be backing long odds horses on a regular basis of which a good number go on to win.

    This can make you over confident and perhaps go on betting throughout the day when you will probably end up in the red or with a lower profit margin than you would have had if you had followed the system rules.

    You MUST stop at a winner or when you are +1 point. That may not sound much but many days you will find the first winner will give you 3-4 points profit for the day.

    Yesterday is a good example. It took 7 bets (not the first 7 races by the way) before finding a winner and a profit of 1.82 points.

    If you had carried on regardless for the rest of the day, you would have ended up with a loss of -22 points.

    So, please if you use the system SAW or when you are 1 point up. If winners are slow to come forward, I use a stop loss of -15 points for the day. The system ebook suggests a stop loss of -30 points but I think this is far too high and I recommend you impose a much lower limit.

    However, since 5 October, just 3 weeks, the system has made around 74 points profit and the pre release test going back to April shows total profits of 670 points.

    Now, I don´t think it would be responsible to suggest the system will make 100 points every month. So, let´s slash that and say it should make 60 points per month which is 2 points per day.

    I don´t know many other backing systems that can produce that sort of return, do you?

    Jon

13. Jon on October 28th, 2008 11:21 am

    Admin

    I simply don´t have the time to monitor Betfair SP nor do I have the time or think it necessary to send in screen shots.

    It sounds to me that you and perhaps others don´t believe the results I am posting. Well, that´s a shame as I do not consider that I have to prove my bets to anyone!

    After all, I was not asked to use Betfair SP or send in screenshots when I tested Money Talks, Little Acorns, Place Lay Formula, so why now?

    But if that is the case then I will simply stop testing now and get on with making money from The Life System.

14. admin on October 28th, 2008 11:23 am

    What kind of research has been put into the suggestion that you should stop at a winner / profit??

    I have a very hard time understanding these SAW systems. The results when you start the next day is going to be the same as if you continued the day before.

    If the system shows a profit then the best thing should of course be to get as many qualifying bets on as possible. The fact that you are in profit has NOTHING to do with the next results.

15. admin on October 28th, 2008 11:40 am

    Jon=> The problem is that you receive commissions on this one. When you don’t receive that I know that it is unbiased since you don’t have any reason to recommend a system.
    I said earlier that I would be harder on this test due to that fact

    You must also understand that people ask questions when the author (and other people using the system) has a big loss and you show a big win and it all is based on when you get the odds. There it would be good to provide a screenshot to proof that you actually got the bet on - otherwise people might ask questions about the integrity and it takes around 30 secs. to make and post.

    I think you are doing a great job and believe that you are being honest so I really hope that you will continue

16. llama on October 28th, 2008 4:53 pm

    Jon,

    I wasn’t suggesting that your odds were fabricated. All I was trying to evaluate was whether an absolute “Pleb” like me who could not pre-trade a horse race, even if my life depended on it, would do o.k. utilising the BetFair SP function.

    You are obviously a very good pre-race trader and the prices that you are obtaining would not necessarily be the kind of odds that normal/unlucky people like me would therefore get.

    From today, I will put up the results as per BetFair S.P. (If anyone is interested).

17. admin on October 28th, 2008 5:14 pm

    Hi Ilama,

    I would be interested in how it performs to Betfair SP so please let us know

18. Harry on October 28th, 2008 5:14 pm

    I follow Life system since yesterday and was surprised that the Sales page showed that huge loss yesterday. I did exactly what the system suggests, and I was short before hitting my stoploss mark, but then I caught a 15/1 winner in the 7th race which brought me an 1.4 point overall gain, where I stopped for the day.
    Today second race brought me a winner at 8.8 for a day profit of 2.5 points, so nothing to complain in the moment, but I would be interested from where yesterday loss came.

19. Jon on October 28th, 2008 5:26 pm

    I think you are missing the point about the system but if you want to post Betfair SP fair enough.

    Will you post the whole day´s race card or stop as per the system rules?

    Please remember that I agreed with the system author not to divulge race meetings and horse names to protect the system. I trust you will honour that agreement.

    I have also sent Admin confirmation of the price I obtained on the winner discussed earlier.

    Jon

20. Jon on October 28th, 2008 5:53 pm

    Harry

    You are obviously working the system correctly as I do. The system website showed the loss because they did not get as good a price as you and me on the two early winners which meant they had to continue until they reached one point profit. Unfortunately that did not happen and they ended up -22 points.

    You and I ended up +1.4 to 1.8 points in profit.

    As I have tried to explain, this system is really all about the opportunity to win on big priced horses that you probably wouldn´t have backed without using the system. I really don´t think recording prices at Betfair SP will add value but time will tell.

    The most important part of the system is DISCIPLINE - see earlier comment.

    Jon

21. Glen on October 28th, 2008 8:52 pm

    Well, I’ve back tested this system using betfair and racing post data over the last year and the results are not good.

    I would advise extreme caution on anyone investing money into this ’system’ there are far too many -30 days (49 in the last year) and stopping at 1 point or more results in a loss of 330 points (not including betfair commission)

    Wonder why the page only starts 4th October instead of the 1st, well the 3rd was a -30 day as well.

    Glen.

22. llama on October 28th, 2008 9:38 pm

    Results for TUESDAY 28th October using BetFair S.P.’s are as follows……(Based on 5% Commission).

    +2.05 Points

    If I am feeling adventurous, and if people want it, from tomorrow I will post nett result of ALL the eligible races for the day.

    As Admin has suggested, why should the system have to stop after a profit for the day?

    If the profit is gained after race 4, no one tells race 5 this, so why not carry on?

    Anyway, the statistics will tell us more……

    Obviously the advantage of playing all the eligible races for a whole day and you were happy to take BetFair S.P., is that you could set your P.C. up in the morning with your trades at BetFair S.P. and go away for the day……

23. Harry on October 29th, 2008 10:10 am

    Glen, this is an unbelievable discrepance between your backtesting and the 670 points profit stated here since April.

24. Jon on October 29th, 2008 10:15 am

    Or you can subscribe to the bot and probably get better prices and go away for the day

25. Glen on October 29th, 2008 10:49 am

    Yes, I agree there is a HUGE discrepancy.

    You’ve probably got to ask where this 670 points figure came from, cos I just don’t see it. I stand by my results, I have all the information required to test it thoroughly, and can provide all selections along with results.

    The other point being, if the author claims to have made 670 points profit, why is he selling it for £60 a time when he can just live off the proceeds?

    Glen.

26. Kokotoni84 on October 29th, 2008 10:58 am

    Yes,Glen’s findings are very worrying.I think it’s sensible to delve into past results before whooping up a system.Glen’s findings put the tin lid on it for me.Probably a loss over the past year or a very very small profit.Not worth the time or effort.I also see from the sales page that he has a bot for the system.ONLY £250 for several months use.Oh dear…

27. Jon on October 29th, 2008 11:11 am

    Ilama

    Betting on all qualifying races is not a system recommendation and no matter what you think of Stop at a Winner, that is a clear system rule.

    If you are going to ignore a rule, you do so at your own peril. After all, when I tested Money Talks, there was a clear rule about qualifying odds. Yet there were many horses that failed this rule that went on to win or get placed. Should I have ignored the rule?

    Little Acorns has a clear rule about betfair prices. Why not say, well its only 0.5 outside the rule, lets bet on it anyway.

    Fancy Fillies includes a rule about betting on the first qualifying filly. It doesn´t say go for as many as you can find on the day!

    System rules are there for a reason - sometimes to stop bettors taking risks that can be avoided.

    By all means post results for the entire race card but I can save you time by telling you that you will end up making a loss! That´s precisely why the SAW rule exists.

    As I stated in the introduction to the system, the ebook recoommends a daily stop loss of -30 points. I said then and say again now, that is far too high for the average bettor. I personally use -15 points as I am comfortable with that level of exposure.

    But you can introduce whatever level of exposure you are comfortable with.

    My concern here is that you nust have bought the system to know which races and runners to follow. If you have, then surely you should follow the system rules and not vary them simply to suit your arguement!

    If you have not bought the system (and certainly you have not through this site´s link) then I would be concerned that you may not fully appreciate the selection process.

    If the view is (quote from your comment)

    ” why should the system have to stop after a profit for the day?

    If the profit is gained after race 4, no one tells race 5 this, so why not carry on? ”

    then you really don´t understand the nature of gambling at all!

    Glen - I will take up your back test with the system author and see what he says. The information I posted about 670 points was volunteered by him in an email conversation about a system rule.

    Can I ask if you know the selection process as I am not sure the Racing Post would hold the critical data? I may be wrong!

    Jon

28. jm on October 29th, 2008 12:11 pm

    I trust Glen 110% on this one. Last news are the original selling price of £3 has now grew up to £60. Should be the true money making system here lol.

29. Jon on October 29th, 2008 12:16 pm

    Glen

    Would you be willing to discuss your back test by email. Obviously, it concerns me if there is a discrepancy between your test and the system´s claims.

    You can reach me at jonsambrook@yahoo.com

    Jon

30. Glen on October 29th, 2008 12:38 pm

    My concern with this system, and I’m picking my words carefully to not give to much away, is that horses listed with the same odds on RP are done so in alphabetical order.

    There seems no logic behind the selection process, do horses starting with the letter A have a better chance of winning than horses starting with Z?

    Glen.

31. Jon on October 29th, 2008 12:51 pm

    Yes, fair point but that is only a secondary selection process. The first and more important process is about prices.

    Can you send me an email, so I can take up your back test findings with the author?

    Jon

32. Jon on October 29th, 2008 2:23 pm

    Just for the benefit of those interested, I have just placed the first bet for the day and secured the following prices:

    7.4
    10
    14

    No doubt Betfair SP will be different but I don´t want anymore suggestions that my prices may have been manipulated. Maybe I will get a winner, maybe not!

    I will try to post the next set of prices until I SAW so that a true comparison can be made with Betfair SP.

    I have also beemn in email contact with Glen who will send me his test results later today.

    Jon

33. Jon on October 29th, 2008 3:20 pm

    Bet 1 - Lost
    Bet 2 8.6 / 24 / 36

34. Jon on October 29th, 2008 3:41 pm

    Bet 2 Lost
    Bet 3 4.5 / 13 / 15.89

    Not a good day so far!

35. Jon on October 29th, 2008 3:49 pm

    Bet 3 Won +1.43 but carry on as -4.57 on day

    Bet 4 7.8 / 7.8 / 12

36. admin on October 29th, 2008 3:50 pm

    Let’s hope it turns around

37. Jon on October 29th, 2008 4:07 pm

    Bet 3 Lost

    Bet 4 8.8 / 14.0 / 14.5

38. Jon on October 29th, 2008 4:09 pm

    Bet 4 won + 10.45 points Stop at First blood

    +2.88 for day

39. Harry on October 29th, 2008 4:21 pm

    12/1 winner in 2.00, Glghs. Thats it for today, around +2.5 points

40. Stuart chapman on October 29th, 2008 4:21 pm

    Hi Jon i missed the bet and naughty i know got 33.5 on the winner in running!!

    Just gets better and better..

41. Stuart chapman on October 29th, 2008 4:28 pm

    im now finished for the day Jon after bending the rules, which i know i shouldn’t do.

    just got 15.5 on Et Maintenant!!!

    i promise im done for the day..

42. Stuart chapman on October 29th, 2008 4:32 pm

    omg wish i’d carried on smokey rider 6.2!!!!!

43. Jon on October 29th, 2008 5:18 pm

    Stuart and Harry

    Well done! And it´s FUN as well

    Jon

44. Stuart chapman on October 29th, 2008 5:19 pm

    did anyone get 19.00 on Angel Rock?

45. llama on October 29th, 2008 9:03 pm

    Results for Wednesday 29th Oct (Using BetFair S.P.’s and 5% Commission)……

    Using Stop at a profit concept +3.07 Points.

    ALL eleigible races for the afternoon +29.31 Points.

    By the Way Jon, I DID purchase this system from a link on this website, so you better check it out, if you want your commission……

46. Jon on October 29th, 2008 11:09 pm

    Ilama

    Can you identify the bets you placed and the Betfair SPs as just giving a summary doesn´t mean anything.

    I am keen to see what prices you got as based on your figures it would seem that perhaps Betfair SP is the way to go.

    Can you show your results as I do in the review?

    Regarding the commission, Admin will confirm that I had already suggested to him yesterday that this be refunded to anyone who bought the system through this site´s link if we decide to reject the system as poor value.

    I cannot check your purchase unless I know your email address.

    Jon

47. llama on October 30th, 2008 1:26 am

    Hi Jon,

    I think it is all “Swings and Roundabouts” if you ask me as far as whether it is better to trade pre-race or use the BetFair SP option. All I know is that the “Lazy Man’s” approach is to use the BetFair SP concept.

    As far as finding out the BetFair SP for any race just go into the “Racing” tab on the Betfair Sports Page and on the right hand side click on “Results” and then at the bottom click on “Click for full results”. That will give you access to any historical race and the BetFair SP for any horse.

    My Email address is zen37798@zen.co.uk

48. llama on October 30th, 2008 1:33 am

    As for today’s results (Wednesday). Obviously I cannot go into too much detail without revealing anything but all I can say is that:-

    Bet 3 +1.64 Points

    Bet 5 +10.44 Points

    (I think you mistakenly had TWO bet 3’s in your breakdown).

49. llama on October 30th, 2008 6:56 pm

    Another good day, with our “Stop at a Profit” taking place with our first bet, with a win of +5.03 Points (BetFair SP and 5% Commission).

    For the WHOLE afternoon for the eligible races we are looking at +25.22 Points (BetFair SP and 5% Commission).

50. Gavin on October 30th, 2008 11:51 pm

    I have used this system for several weeks and can vouch it does make money. If you stick to the plan and accept bad days as well as good you cant go wrong. This is one of the best ive seen in a long time.

51. Greg on October 31st, 2008 3:02 pm

    I have followed the system since Oct. 8th and never had a losing day so far. Even at the official losing days I won.
    That’s because I always dutch the selections with the goal to make one point profit. After a losing race I set my new target and dutch the next race.
    This way I always end the day with +1 point whenever a winner is found, irrespective of the winner odds and the number of bets.
    Also my liability (at least during the first 7 bets) is much lower than to level stakes.
    Jon will reach his 15 point loss already after 5 losing bets, after 5 bets I am still far away from minus 15 points.
    IMO the staking procedure is the most important point and the authors didn’t find the best solution so far.
    I think, my staking procedure could also withstand Glen’s back testing.

52. Stuart Chapman on October 31st, 2008 4:12 pm

    Another fine day 14.00 points up..

    one shite system this.. LOL

53. Alan on November 1st, 2008 7:16 pm

    Can this system be run with a bot as i cant be at a pc all afternoon.
    Thanks in advance

54. Fernie on November 2nd, 2008 10:08 pm

    Hi Jon

    I have bought and am following you guys and the system. Early signs are excellent, although I agree with you about a 15 point stop loss (I’m very new to all this though ;-))

    Just one point - the system author in the literature says “NO RACING ON SATURDAYS” so should we be publishing these results? or have you decided to include them. I would be interested to know why if you have the time to find out, otherwise I will mail him myself.

    The time you take to review sytems is much appreciated.

    Cheers

    Fernie

55. Harry on November 3rd, 2008 4:51 pm

    Ouch….
    7 races , 1 winner out of 21, Stop loss reached -17 point

56. Jon on November 3rd, 2008 8:25 pm

    Fernie

    If you are new to betting, please exercise caution with any racing system! Betfair has an uncanny knack of snatching back your winnings without warning. Today´s results for The Life System bear this out.

    You are correct that the author said not to include Saturdays but only from the point of managing to get all bets on as there is usually a lot of overlapping race starts at different courses.

    But there is no reason not to bet on Saturdays if you want to.

    Also, as we are now testing the system at Betfair SP, getting bets matched can be done in advance and watching a couple of live markets simultaneously is unnecessary.

    Hope this answers your question.

    Jon

57. Jon on November 3rd, 2008 8:29 pm

    Harry

    By my calculation you would be -13.39 points at Betfair SP after the first 7 qualifying races although this is no comfort to anyone.

    Are you following system rules or backing all qualifiers to Betfair SP?

    Jon

58. Jon on November 3rd, 2008 8:32 pm

    Alan

    I don´t see why the system cannot be run with a bot as long as you can set rules regarding number of runners, betfair price of race favourites and minimum price of any race selections.

    You could just use Betfair SP which despite today has worked well in the last week. But I´m not sure if you can set an overall stop loss if you bet in advance on Betfair SP.

    Perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge can post.

    Jon

59. Gavin on November 3rd, 2008 9:19 pm

    I agree, but there’s always tomorrow.

60. Harry on November 4th, 2008 4:33 pm

    Amazing system, again 7 races , 1 winner, 20 loser, stop loss reached

61. Glen on November 4th, 2008 6:33 pm

    It’ll all end in tears…

    I sent Jon the results of this system backtested for over a year. Over that time period it’s well down, -477 points using the stop loss, -810 points betting on each race.

    Glen.

62. Jon on November 4th, 2008 7:22 pm

    Harry

    What Stop Loss are you using? We never reached the system stop loss of -30 today.

    Jon

63. Gavin on November 5th, 2008 12:21 pm

    Hi

    Either I am missing the point big time on the selection process involved for qualifying races. Yesterdays results on the website differ from mine. I used the qualifying criteria and according to my records we were in profit by 3pm. Does anyone else agree ????

64. Jon on November 5th, 2008 6:50 pm

    Glen

    Thanks for the back test. I´ve had a look at it but as there are over 5,000 races to analyse, I simply do not have the time to make a detailed study.

    So, I picked looked at the first two days of this review where the system ws monitored race by race and reported on in this review just to get a flavour.

    I looked at 23 and 24 October (2008) and found that on those two days there were two missing races where the system had winners!

    I am not suggesting your records are completely wrong but it also seems you disregarded the system rule of SAW/First Blood on those days and simply showed results for qualifying races across the whole card, which is our parallel test as summarised above.

    Since 29 October, reporting on all qualifying races at Betfair SP presently shows a net gain of +68 points. It maybe too early to tell whether this is a better or more risky method rather than using the system rules.

    That´s why we are carrying out a fairly exhaustive test for at least 4 weeks.

    Everyone has different opinions on racing systems and I stil think it is too early to pass final judgement on The Life System.

    Jon

65. Jon on November 5th, 2008 7:04 pm

    Gavin

    Yes, First Blood was achieved after the 3pm race. The winners are recorded at Betfair SP as we decided the fairest way to report results was to use Betfair SP as that price is available to everyone.

    Are you betting at BFSP or in the live market? If the latter, you may well end up with a different total as I do for my personal betting with the system. Sometimes I get better prices than BFSP and sometimes not.

    The Life System website, I believe, shows results from their bot service which matches bets in the live market, so may not always be the same as your results or Betfair SP.

    Jon

66. Gavin on November 5th, 2008 7:31 pm

    Hi

    Using the selection criteria we were up at least 3.82 points (not Betfair) at race 6.

67. Stuart Chapman on November 5th, 2008 8:24 pm

    this is for GAVIN ,,, as i am aware, the main website is showing results for Autobot members of which i am a member. They made me over 40 points profit previously to the 28th Ocotber. They could boast that profit but chose not to for some reason.. Thats why i feel were dealing with different type of people than before.

    If you go to the ebook site thelifesystem.co.uk/ebook it shows the life system results. to ebook rules. I spoke to James not so long ago and he said the ebook was a work in progress and he may of released it to soon. I for one am glad he released it when he did. Its a great basis for a method..

68. Gavin on November 5th, 2008 11:46 pm

    Hi

    Following on from my earlier message in respect of today. If you adhered to the rules for this system, even yesterday a profit of 7+ points at the 6th QUALIFYING race was achieved, although the website shows a massive loss . I know because the money is in my account.

69. Mark on November 7th, 2008 1:04 pm

    Hi Everyone

    I have been running this system for a week so far and have been thoroughly delighted with the results. I have been running it through the full days results bar the Irish races and and like Gavin I am well in profit. I have run two versions to see how they stack up one sticking to the selection criteria and one including all races. Yesterday I was £34 in profit on only £6.00 a race if I had included the races that did not meet the selection criteria I would have £78.00 I Will try with todays selections and see how I do and get back to you.

70. Gavin on November 7th, 2008 2:35 pm

    Hi Jon

    I use the live markets just before the start of each race. I have been following the system since the beginning of October.

    Within the last couple of weeks I have started to use certain criteria in selecting the qualifying races and so far the results on most days has been in profit.

    I know its early days but I believe this system is a winner providing you stick to the plan.

    Regards.

    Gavin.

71. Gavin on November 7th, 2008 3:12 pm

    Hi

    This is the type of day we like, our first qualifying race and a nice profit for about a minutes work. Thats me finished for the day !!!

    Regards.

    Gavin.

72. Stuart Chapman on November 8th, 2008 2:58 am

    My mate lost shed loads on FPS system… Gutted!..ok though he’s quickly making it back with TLS!!

73. Jon on November 8th, 2008 5:17 pm

    Hi Gavin

    Whilst we should not disclose system rules in an open forum such as this, as that is not fair to the system author, could you email your additional criteria for qualifying races to me as I am keen to build up intelligence about how different people use the system.

    jonsambrook@yahoo.com

    Cheers
    Jon

74. Jon on November 8th, 2008 5:20 pm

    Hi Stuart

    By FPS, I assume you mean Favourites Phenonemon which has been reviewed on this site, I think by Admin about three months ago.

    What I smile about is that one or two visitors have knocked Life System yet FP made a thumping loss of -84 points a few days ago.

    Life System is not perfect and will incur losing days, but so far during the test is showing a healthy profit as you and a few others already know!

    Cheers
    Jn

75. Glen on November 8th, 2008 9:01 pm

    All of those races were omitted due to the 3.1 price rule. If there are rules in a system then that’s how I test them. I use the 1 minute before official race start to collect the Betfair odds, they are 100% accurate.

    Midnight in May was 2.98 at 1 minute before the off.
    North Walk was 3.05 at 1 minute before the off.

    ‘The favourite may have been higher…..’ this is a joke right? If your testing a system stick to the same rules, don’t go adjusting them to try and pack more winners in. Be consistent with the time your placing the bets, etc.

    You can’t base a results service on Betfair SP as you don’t know what the Betfair SP will be until after the off.

    This system has been backtested exactly to the rules of the system using Betfair prices 1 minute before the off. If someone set up a bot so run the system with the same settings, they would have EXACTLY the same results as I’ve sent you.

    Arguing over 1 or 2 races is really a moot point when you’re looking at 5000+ races, and the stats speak for themselves.

    It’s a crap system, and doesn’t stand the test of time, the only one getting rich is the author….same with 95% of other systems.

    Oh, regarding FPS, PLEASE GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT, 32 points loss, and well in profit every year for the last 3 years.

    Glen.

76. Stuart Chapman on November 9th, 2008 12:16 am

    The ebook doesnt say to use a bot and place bets exactly 1 minute before the off, that means the whole of those results for 5000 races are inacurate. The system is not as cut and dry as Glen likes to make out.

    I think the author should do something regarding this slander as his website looks covered under all applicable laws to take legal action.. At the end of the day at the moment the life system has gave hundreds maybe the basis of a great system and for that alone deserves credit. Personally im up over 200 points since i started. But i am using the Life system as a base sometimes and i alway try to get the best price i can.

77. Jon on November 9th, 2008 12:35 pm

    Stuart

    In case you missed it, I have posted a lengthy reply to Glen in the review under the last results dated 8th November.

    I have also written to Betfair and Racing Post to check if they keep records of Betfair prices at 1 minute before the official start time and tissue prices for the Racing Post.

    I was very disappointed that someone who runs another racing forum should make such derogatory comments about a system we are trialling and where we have not yet made a judgement on its merits.

    Maybe he´s a bit on edge after his FP bot´s performance recently?

    Jon

78. jm on November 9th, 2008 1:14 pm

    Stop dreaming and wake up guys… TLS is just another progression crap system that might show a good start - for some time - so sellers will promote that ’system’ from £3 (yup that was TLS system price initially, just before ‘beta-testers’ report some money won - to £60.

    Correction will come soon! That’s write in stone like for any crap / progression system so once the true story revealed sellers will just discard the whole thing, including buyers! They are not refunding anything (look at website’s T&C).

    Sellers have promoted a lot of those crap £3 3-line ’systems’ and they will eventually give up this one then focus on another one.

    I’m ready to bet some money because I’m getting some pretty good odds on that one lol.

    I’d add Glen is an honest guy saying the whole truth about TLS… and FPS as well. FPS has recently shown a bad day but certainly not a 84 pt loss because the bot has a 50 pt maximum point loss at level 3.

    Using weeks or even months back-testing on any progressive system is just… ridiculous! Even after many years of testing the final result is uncertain so one might suffer heavy losses.

79. Glen on November 9th, 2008 2:12 pm

    I give up.

    I try and be helpful by showing accurate results over 1 year so people don’t lose loads of money and I get flamed for it.

    The whole point of 5000 races, no matter what time the odds are taken is that it shows the long term trend of the system, yes you may get different results if you look at the odds earlier or later, etc for a few races but over the course of a year, the trend will be similar.

    Slander? yeah right, when I’ve got all the required data to test such systems, I can backup everything I say.

    I make truthful comments based on fact, not whatif’s or maybe’s. I don’t have any axe to grind about any system. I would really love the system to be profitable.

    @Jon, I resent your remarks, when I went out of my way to help you with the data you requested. FP Bots performance has been exemplary. FP System has had a bit of a bad couple of months, there is a distinction.

    I write bots for a living (not sell racing system pdf’s), but I won’t write a bot for a system that loses money (waste of my time, and I wouldn’t be happy taking subscriptions for something I knew wasn’t going to be profitable long term). To this end I test all systems that come onto the market. From all the systems I’ve tested maybe 2% are actually decent systems.

    The only axe i have to grind is against these so called golden goose pdf authors, who promise the world then disappear into the woodwork when things turn sour (along with the money you’ve paid them), creating their next masterpiece to fleece the punting world with.

    Whilst I think live testing of these systems is all well and good, a month is a very limited time to show the true potential of a system.

    I do appologise if I’ve upset anyone on here, but I have tried to be total open and truthful.

    Glen.

80. admin on November 9th, 2008 2:31 pm

    Glen=> I really hope that you don’t give up I enjoy reading your comments and think that you put some good effort into the debate. Hope that you will continue to defend your oppinion no matter what, this site should NOT be a site where only some oppinions are accepted, everyone should be able to come with their comments and discuss them.

    This site is all about helping people making an informed decision before buying a system.

    All the comments will also be included when we will make the verdict for this system. So far I have a small negative biased oppinion on this system.

    JM=> There are NO PROGRESSIONS USED FOR THIS SYSTEM please check the system rules again or try to read the system so you know what you are commenting on. Otherwise I agree in some of your points

81. Jon on November 9th, 2008 2:42 pm

    I´ve written to both Betfair and RP to see if it is possible to back test in the manner described by Glen and will post their replies here.

    If it is indeed possible, then we can check more of Glen´s data to satisfy ourselves on whether his data can be considered reliable.

    But when all is said and done and as I have posted many times before, no racing system is 100% guaranteed to work all the time, every system will have losing streaks but I don´t think you can always judge a system by back testing.

    There is no devine rule that says what happened in the past will happen in the future - in fact I think one of Glen´s subscribers makes that very point somewhere on his forum!

    Perhaps I resent Glen´s inference that I may have been cooking the books to make the system appear profitable. That is simply not true.

    I provide the system trial as a service to HorseRacingMan and I assure you that I monitor each race live including non qualifying races and evening races. I am trying to find weaknesses as much as anyone else is but I think it is extremely discourteous of Glen to make a flippant comment that the system is crap just like 95% of others.

    Unbelievable.

    Jon

82. admin on November 9th, 2008 2:57 pm

    Too all users

    Please make sure that this debate will NOT evolve into a personal war. We are trying to discuss the system and find out if it works or not, or how we can do it better.

83. Jon on November 9th, 2008 2:58 pm

    Admin

    What is your concern about the system? We should discuss this here for the benefit of everyone.

    Jon

84. admin on November 9th, 2008 3:07 pm

    Jon=> I will come with my final comments when the test has finished and should help decide where it should go

85. Glen on November 9th, 2008 3:16 pm

    Jon,

    I don’t think you’ll get much luck with either RP or betfair to be honest.

    I wrote a program that has been running for over a year that collects all the data each day from sporting life / racing post / Betfair / oddschecker. This data is not available on the web anymore. (betfairs free historic data is not easy to group into time before the off…and if you wanted proper betfair data it’s going to cost you around 60p per meeting from betfair)

    The RP tissue prices can most likely be checked against the racing post paper.

    I don’t make the data up (why would I), if you want me to rerun the tests at 2 minutes, 5 minutes, 10 minutes or even 2 hours before the off I can.

    Regarding what happens in the past is no indication…, thats how all systems are devised and tested, and if you know about statistics, unless something changes in horse racing, then trends are going to be maintained in the long term.

    Regarding comments about the bot…Isn’t this system being run by a bot on their website?

    I made a flippant comment after your flippant comment about 72 point losses

    Anyway enough of the tit for tat

    I’ve hopefully got the message across that whilst this system is showing a decent profit so far, my research has shown it may/will come back and take back everything it’s made plus some more. Stake as if 5 losing days (150 points) on the trot are just around the corner.

    Glen.

86. Stuart Chapman on November 9th, 2008 3:40 pm

    Some races i take prices 1 min to the off some races i take prices 1 minute 47 seconds to the off. i find the best price. Also i may decide to leave a race as our selection is under 3.1 at 5 minutes to the off, but then i might make that decision 2 minutes ot the off, each race is different to me. Can your inacurate backtesting include those variables.. short answer - IMPOSSIBLE..

87. Stuart Chapman on November 9th, 2008 4:20 pm

    i would just like to add that i would like to side with Glen this is a pants way of picking winners, i wouldn’t waste £60 on the ebook.

    The fewer people know about this system or use it the better!! know what i mean (wink wink) sorry got a twitchy eye

88. Glen on November 9th, 2008 4:26 pm

    Hi Stuart,

    I have no argument for you, as I’ve said my piece. If you don’t understand the implication of what I’ve said, then good luck to you.

    Your haphazzard method may delay the inevitable, but long term the trend is a downward one. A negative edge or expectancy will eventually win.

    Heres some random mutterings to hopefully make things a little clearer.

    Any system showing a negative edge is unbeatable in the long term.

    Take roulette as an example, odds and even has a negative edge (to the punter) of just over 5%. This is called the house advantage.

    Gambling on Betfair you’ve already lost this edge due to commission, so unless the system shows a positive edge of greater than 5% (to cover commission) you will lose money over a long period.

    The great Albert Einstein was quoted as saying “The only way to beat Roulette is to steal the money when the dealer’s not looking.”. This is because of the negative edge, no staking plans or fancy systems will work if the long term outcome is negative.

    I believe this systems long term edge is negative.

    Glen.

89. Mark on November 9th, 2008 5:45 pm

    Intersting reading all your comments. I would be interested in learning about your bots glen if you would like to email me if you have chance kagatori@hotmail.com.

    My last two days were down days. Going to see how today goes. Im willing to keep trialing it but I have to be honest and say im begining to think it was a waste of £60. Ill get back to you.

90. Jon on November 9th, 2008 6:38 pm

    Mark

    Do your results differ from the review results posted? Are you using Betfair SP or pre race prices?

    Jon

91. Jon on November 9th, 2008 8:19 pm

    To everyone who has been following the review of The Life System, here is a copy of an e-mail received by me from the system author this evening.

    —————————–
    Hi Jon

    The Life System E-book is being taken off the market sometime tomorrow and will definitely be offline by midnight 10th November.

    This is not a sales ploy at all as I would rather take it off right now but I’m sure to get emails from unhappy people who wanted to buy the book. I want to try and protect the markets for Steve’s bet master clients.

    I’m quite aware of the slanderous remarks and inaccurate back testing from a certain website and owner. I don’t usually feel the need to defend myself but I will touch on the subject.

    I am no professional marketer, my grammar and punctuation would suggest that to most people. I had been selling some good little systems for between £3 and £10 to a list I have. I spent time on these systems and used them myself to make a few hundred pounds per week using the 5 I had as a portfolio.

    I’ve been using the life system for over 6 months, 6 - 8 weeks ago it never even had a name it was just a very simple method Í had and was using successfully. If I’m honest it was shown to me by a guy called Jon Christie, a good friend of mine.

    When I decided to put the e-book together for members I set out to give them my method for £5. But what I do on a daily basis cannot and would never be able to be portrayed in an e-book. The steps and measures I took with this little system for 6 months were things that couldn’t be taught to people. Yes I have a way of picking winners and when I picked the right races (which I must have been doing) I was winning and in 6 months I clocked up over 664 points profit.

    Now I didn’t do that by using the rules set out in the e-book, I was told by marketers I would need a set of rules and I couldn’t sell the e-book with the information on how to pick the 3 horses and then tell people to use their Betfair knowledge and experience to win. So that’s why the e-book has filters. They seemed fairly safe filters to add, but obviously I have no accurate way of back testing it, all I knew was the way of picking winners is strong.

    So this is why I gave it rules.

    I have no clue how to use external websites to back test results and quite frankly I wasn’t willing to spend the time doing that when I know for a fact that past results in horse racing follow no trend at all. If that was the case how could I be picking up 30/1 winners 5 times a week mixed with maybe 2 - 50/1 winners a month???

    Also back testing did not appeal to me as I wanted to share this e-book with my list of around 250 people and I wanted them to have it for a fiver…When the results started to back up my claims in October, marketers became interested and marketers as we know can’t make profit from £5 and the price was increased. The main thing is people on my list got it for what I set out to give it them for £5. Everyone else got sold the system by marketers for £30 - £60.

    I’d just like to finish by saying what I know about Betfair and what I do and what I look at before a race cannot be taught, it is instinctive. The rules I set out in the e-book cannot be 100% back tested, there are too many variables. BFSP, 1 minute before the off and longer is inaccurate even with the rules I gave in the e-book.

    Just today I got Steve’s bet master clients matched at 10.5 and 11.00 on a horse which looks to have finished BFSP of 6.6 or thereabouts. What I hope to have achieved is to have given people a solid basis to build from, and opened their eyes up past the favourites in a race and hopefully breathed some new life into the backing side of Betfair.

    I’m not after any tit for tat arguments regarding what I have spoken about in this email from anyone and I won’t reply to it either, there will be so many people with things to say to me, I know my mistakes I am human and as humans do, I’ll learn from my mistakes. The biggest mistake I made was ever deciding to sell my method, but its all water under the bridge, If man doesn’t take risks he leads a very lonely life..

    Best regards…
    ——————————————

    So, the Life System is no longer available in a few hours. Not because it does not work but because the author is dismayed at all the negative comments on this and other forums.

    There is little point, therefore, in continuing with the review. The system made a loss today if following BFSP but made around 4.6 points if betting in the pre race market.

    Jon

92. Glen on November 9th, 2008 9:00 pm

    Nothing I have said is, or has, been slanderous.

    I tested your system to the rules you’ve specified and they have made a 400 point or 800 point loss, depending on which method you follow.

    I was simply reporting these results, so that people would know to treat the system with caution.

    Now I know you can’t program computers to use instinct, but that has never been mentioned anywhere in the system rules.

    If betmechanic has been setup to follow these rules mechanicallly, then I would be cautious. If your using your ‘instinctive’ skills to cherry pick the selections that bet mechanic can use, then good luck to you, I hope it goes well and the system goes from strength to strength.

    Glen.

93. admin on November 9th, 2008 9:02 pm

    The author should maybe have said the following line (from his email) at his website selling the system:

    “The steps and measures I took with this little system for 6 months were things that couldn’t be taught to people”

94. Glen on November 9th, 2008 9:24 pm

    For those interested, the p/l graphs using the system rules, 5% commission deducted, Betfair prices 5 minutes before the off can be found at http://www.betgear.net/images/life.png

    You’ll notice October and November are currently on an upward trend, hence the good results reported so far.

    I could not find a time to use betfair pricing that would alter the general downwards trend of the graph.

    This is 1 years worth of data.

    Glen.

95. Jon on November 9th, 2008 9:41 pm

    Here is the reply to my enquiry to The Racing Post:
    ————————
    Dear Mr Sambrook,

    Thank you for your e-mail.

    Unfortunately, we do not hold records of bookmaker’s tissue prices. The SP’s however for the last twelve months racing can be found in ‘The Form Book Flat Annual for 2009′ which will be published in February ‘09. There is also a ‘Jumps’ equivalent. Both books can be purchased through the Racing Post online shop. Alternatively, all individual race records, including starting prices, can be found in our results database within our website.

    We hope you find this information useful.

    Kind regards,

    Ben Walton
    ————————————–

96. Des on November 9th, 2008 9:54 pm

    Have I missed something??

    The Author has been selling a system which he admits “…were things that couldn’t be taught….”

    I wish all system writers would be so truthful.

97. Stuart Chapman on November 9th, 2008 10:51 pm

    Hi all, from reading the authors comments i understand the book is off sale to protect the bet master clientel, not because of criticism, which Jon you posted at the end of 91 and then glen has posted in his forum. More wrong information being portrayed.

    What i also got from his comments is the ebook was written to give to his personal list. BUT experience and shrewd decision making in a live market are not things he can pass down. Thats fully understandable especially with this system.

    So in regards to things being taught, The authors main objective was to let a few people know his strategy of picking the actual horses and was then advised he couldnt just advice the picking method in the ebook. Seems straight forward to me. Im gratefull he has shared this way of betting with me personally. Because its opened doors to greater things.. Move on people nothing to see here….

98. Jon on November 9th, 2008 11:02 pm

    Glen

    In your earlier comment (75) you make a point of saying the data was based on the Betfair price at 1 minute before the start time. Now you have said that your graphs are based on the Betfair price at 5 minutes before the start time??

    That seems to suggest a variance in your data collection process?

    Also, The RP have confirmed they do not keep past tissue prices on line, so are you saying that you checked the tissue prices for 5,000 races by going through back copies of the RP newspaper?

    I´m only trying to get clarification as the contradictions are now confusing me.

    Jon

99. Fernie on November 10th, 2008 1:01 am

    Hi Guys,

    I have to say I’m new to all this and a bit confused.

    I bought this system to run alongside a few others I am currently using and to be honest I would like to get to a position that I can get out of the rat race, but are we now saying that the system doesn’t actually work as laid down in the rules and the author actually does more with it? Or is it just that he is experienced using Betfair?

100. Fernie on November 10th, 2008 1:04 am

     PS… I find this site really helpful and there are some great people on it trying to help out and spending a lot of their own time, but surely we need to keep it friendly, factual and honest

101. Glen on November 10th, 2008 1:17 am

     Hi Jon,

     Glad to clear up the misunderstandings for you.

     I’ve been writing betting systems for around 3 years. I came to the conclusion that in order to properly test systems I would need accurate data from Betfair, Racing Post, Adrian Massey and Odds Checker.

     To this end I wrote a bunch of web parsers that would, every day, parse websites and collect all the relevant information I would need in order to test the systems of the future.

     Every day for just over a year the web parsers have been collecting this information and storing it in my database.

     A screenshot of the program that collects the info is avaialable here http://www.betgear.net/images/dg.png

     This just shows a very small subset of the information collected. I collect around 70 different variables per horse, which includes the RP tissue pricing, postdata, rpr, etc. It will also calculate data such as best finishing positions achieved at that time for going, course, class, distance, etc.

     I also collect the market prices from betfair at 2 hours, 1 hour, 30, 20, 15, 10, 5, 2, 1 and 0 minutes before the official race start.

     The parsers will also collect the full results for each race, including race times and finishing distances (the theory was to automate speed rating, but I’ve never got around to doing this yet…but I have the data to do it).

     This then allows me to backtest pretty much any system avaialable.

     I was playing with life today, to see if I could achieve any better results by getting betfair prices at different times before the race, hence the 5 minutes before the off graphs.

     You’ll notice the graphs shown on the forums are fairly similar in shape between 1 minute and 5 minutes (although the 5 minute graph takes off commission as well which highlights how much commission affects PL over a significant number of bets).

     It takes me an hour or so to write the specific code for backtesting a single system, this code then pulls the relevant data from my database and spits out the results.

     My ultimate goal is to get together a portfolio of profitable systems that run totally automated, with no user intervention (and no stress) that generate money each day.

     This is the reason I test systems, if it’s good, it will get added to the portfolio. Unfortunately, I’m getting a little jaded with this approach, I’ve only found a very small handful of systems that make the grade when tested in this way over a year.

     I would love to have more data, but I figure a year covers both racing seasons and will give a little indication of how the systems perform. This time next year, I’ll be able to test them with 2 years worth of data

     Hope this clears things up.

     Glen.

102. Mark on November 10th, 2008 1:52 pm

     Hi Jon

     I have been going via pre race prices. Also I have been donig a full day of races to see how that works. Unfortunatly the odd good dy is puncuated by a series of dissapointing days. Fantastic website by the way guys, I like a number of people on here seem to be doinng, am looking for a portfolio of systems that work to make a steady profit. I would be happy to test any systems and share knowldge with any of you. Any chance on doing s section on Bots for betfair as they particularly interst me.

     Mark

103. Stuart Chapman on November 10th, 2008 2:57 pm

     I wouldn’t say im experienced with betfair but although i use the life system daily now, i find myself leaving maybe 3 races from each 10, because you just know when your selections dont stand a cat in hells chance.

     For example A P Mccoy on a 1.67 Favourite in a Novice Hurdle, where no other horse has experience.

     After reading what was said and speaking via email with the author, what i understand is the method of picking winners is successful, which i know it is so far. The ebook goes into alot of detail regarding safety and comfort level which is worth every penny everyone paid anyway, i for one learnt alot from these chapters.

     Regardless of how many months backtesting horse racing isnt a stock market and the trends as people talk about do not always stay true.

     i rest my case.. This is a great place to talk, but i wish people wouldn’t do the same thing with every new system that comes along.

     Stuart

104. jm on November 10th, 2008 3:01 pm

     To Admin:

     My bad… TLS don’t use progression stricto sensu even if sellers did mention ‘optional’ fibonnaci or either ‘home made’ progression scheme especially when using NOT SAW (coutinuous betting)

     Whatever… Let’s do quick maths about TLS, thanks to Adrian Massey website:

     THIS PART DELETED BY ADMIN SINCE IT GIVES AWAY THE SYSTEM.

     Cumulative total is 30.7% Probability of win (P) = 0.307
     Return On Investment is estimated around 95% BF prices and vig. deducted. Statistically speaking (that is if future events follows logic behind past events), one will lose around 50 pt for each 1000 pt bet.

     Now, how many times one will be faced a 10 in a row (Daily Stop Loss) with (P)win = 0.307?

     (P)win = 0.307 => (P)lose = 0.693

     Answer is around 2400 times in 1 million or 1/416 events or P = 0.0024.

     The point is we’re globally facing rare events (30Pt Daily Stop Loss, I’m not assuming losing days here) so we have an impression of ’safe bet’ even if we lose eventually around 5% of our investment on the long haul.

     Thanks once more to AM’s website:
     http://www.adrianmassey.com/fav/index.php

105. Gavin on November 10th, 2008 10:05 pm

     Hi

     Whatever people say about this system we have another day of profit on our first qualifying race.

     Look at this over the long term and not on a day to day basis.

     Regards.

     Gavin.

106. jm on November 10th, 2008 11:01 pm

     Admin, I don’t know if you are aware of this fact: copyright laws do NOT protect ideas nor systems so if I’m reformulating with my own words like the part you deleted this is all but copyright protection.

     For example, if I write with my own words: Based on 24.000 events, the third favorite has won 13.5% of races, now are you supposed to delete this sentence? If yes, please feel free to elaborate about! If you don’t, am I granted now to write another statistic about the fourth favorite (9.7%) then another one abou